The function of Gm G♭ B♭ chord progression in “Shine On You Crazy Diamond”
Over the Christmas break I heard this programme on BBC radio:
Shine On You Crazy Diamond
David Gilmour discusses his famous four-note motif B♭ F G E but what wasn't discussed and I wished had been was the first three chords of the song, which are:
Gm G♭ B♭
In the first chord, the minor third of the chord is a B♭ note, which then serves as the major third of the subsequent G♭ major chord.
And I see that Gm is the relative minor of B♭ major. But what function does each chord serve? Is there some sort of cadential preparation going on? It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me.
cadence
add a comment |
Over the Christmas break I heard this programme on BBC radio:
Shine On You Crazy Diamond
David Gilmour discusses his famous four-note motif B♭ F G E but what wasn't discussed and I wished had been was the first three chords of the song, which are:
Gm G♭ B♭
In the first chord, the minor third of the chord is a B♭ note, which then serves as the major third of the subsequent G♭ major chord.
And I see that Gm is the relative minor of B♭ major. But what function does each chord serve? Is there some sort of cadential preparation going on? It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me.
cadence
3
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago
add a comment |
Over the Christmas break I heard this programme on BBC radio:
Shine On You Crazy Diamond
David Gilmour discusses his famous four-note motif B♭ F G E but what wasn't discussed and I wished had been was the first three chords of the song, which are:
Gm G♭ B♭
In the first chord, the minor third of the chord is a B♭ note, which then serves as the major third of the subsequent G♭ major chord.
And I see that Gm is the relative minor of B♭ major. But what function does each chord serve? Is there some sort of cadential preparation going on? It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me.
cadence
Over the Christmas break I heard this programme on BBC radio:
Shine On You Crazy Diamond
David Gilmour discusses his famous four-note motif B♭ F G E but what wasn't discussed and I wished had been was the first three chords of the song, which are:
Gm G♭ B♭
In the first chord, the minor third of the chord is a B♭ note, which then serves as the major third of the subsequent G♭ major chord.
And I see that Gm is the relative minor of B♭ major. But what function does each chord serve? Is there some sort of cadential preparation going on? It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me.
cadence
cadence
edited 25 mins ago
Andrew T.
207110
207110
asked yesterday
Brian THOMAS
2,6151023
2,6151023
3
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago
add a comment |
3
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago
3
3
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
The move from Gm to GbM is definitely not a standard “classical” progression, although it does start to happen more and more in the late Romantic era and in lots of Impressionist and other neo-tonal styles. It’s perhaps especially common in the triadic minimalism of composers like Philip Glass. I don’t think it’s super common in rock music, which might be part of why it sounds so fresh in the Pink Floyd example.
You’re exactly right that the “connective tissue” of the chord change is the Bb common tone. David Lewin called this move SLIDE, and neo-Riemannian theorists often call it P’ or “P prime,” because it’s the opposite of the connection they call P, which is short for parallel. P connects a major triad to its parallel minor counterpart and vice versa. This means the root and the fifth stay the same, and the third moves by a half step. P’ is the opposite, because, as you noted in your example, the third stays the same while both the root and fifth move by a half step. That’s why it’s the opposite of the parallel move.
Anyway, it’s an extremely cool sound, and it contributes a great deal to the moody effect of the beginning of “Shine on.”
EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, I just realized you also asked about the move from GbM to BbM as well. This move also includes a common tone—notably, the same Bb common tone as the previous move—and half step movements in the other two voices just like in the P’ move. Different voices and directions are involved though. The move is called a “chromatic mediant,” and that’s the name for any two chords with roots a third apart and the same quality (major or minor). There are many questions on the site that explain chromatic mediant a if you want more details.
add a comment |
I had some trouble finding the part of the "song" you asked about. I assume it is this part starting at 4:59:
.
The tonality is G minor (I suppose G aeolian if you want to get picky.)
...what function does each chord serve?
If we are wearing out music theory hats, function means identifying the chords within a key and the harmonic roles of tonic, pre-dominant, or dominant.
This is how I labelled it...
Gm |Gb Bb |Eb dm cm Bb |F |
Gm: i |? III |VI v iv III|VII |
Right off the bat we see there isn't a dominant function. There isn't an actual V
or viio
. That isn't unusual in rock music. But it lets us know we are using a different playbook than that of classical harmony.
Of course the question is about the Gb
major chord.
Technically it's non-functional, because it isn't a chord from the key or a closely related key.
As @PatMuchmore points out Gb
is a chromatic mediant of Bb
. You might also say it's a chromatic passing chord, because of the step-wise motion connecting the chords. Although the bass moving by roots sort of undermines the idea of a passing chord. Also, the chord is harmonically important so calling it 'passing' isn't really appropriate.
If Roman numeral symbols is the concern, there isn't one to give it. Either skip it, or just write Gb
or 'chromatic mediant` under it.
It's worth noting that while many times a chromatic mediant chord is often a borrowed chord (like C
and Eb
in C major where the Eb
is borrowed from C minor) in this case the Gb
is not a borrowed chord.
Significantly, the Gb
could be respelled F#
in which case it becomes a non-functional chord built on the leading tone. In classical harmony that leading tone chord would be a diminished chord and strongly indicate the key. But that doesn't happen here. So while these chords on the whole are diatonic the progression eschews basic classical harmony.
Of course, calling Gb
non-functional should not be misconstrued to mean 'bad', 'wrong', 'weak', 'unimportant', etc. This chord creates the whole psychedelic feel of the progression. Without it the progression would be plain diatonic.
add a comment |
Although Michael Curtis said otherwise, I would argue that this is a borrowed chord.
Basically the G♭ is used to give the move to from gm to its relative major B♭ the character of a proper modulation like you'd find in classical pieces. If the progression were just something like
gm E♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ - Ⅲ
or even
gm F - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅶ - Ⅲ
then the B♭ would sound just like a Ⅲ with a clear expectation of dropping right back into gm. If we instead make it
gm F₇ - B♭
then this changes somewhat: the F₇ is a more forcing dominant, and now it sounds more like
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅴ(/B♭)₇ - Ⅰ(/B♭)
Thereby, the B♭ chord effects a more prominent “opening up”, really places us in a major mood instead of just tossing in a major sound into the minor key. But the Ⅴ₇ - Ⅰ resolution is a bit too much of a classical cliché and would feel rather out of place in this piece.
What Pink Floyd do instead is cleverer: seen from the target key B♭, a chord is burrowed from its parallel key, i.e.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | ♭Ⅵ(/B♭) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
with the ♭Ⅵ burrowed from the key of b♭-minor, i.e. we could also write.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ(/b♭m) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
This reinforces the opening-up character further, because if we're effectively coming from the key of b♭m then the B♭ major chord has something of a Picardy third effect. I could lean further out of the window and say this foreshadows the clear Picardy-third ending of Part Ⅸ of the piece, but that's probably a bit too much of a leap.
That B♭ is a common tone to all these chords is certainly a relevant observation too, but I don't feel this is really important for the progression. I don't intuitively hear any pedal-tone effect in this part of the piece.
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
add a comment |
"It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me."
And there we have it. There's a note in common, Bb. That's about all the 'theory' we're going to find to justify this progression (if we can call a non-functional series if chords a 'progression').
There's not really much more to say about the 'chromatic mediant' Gb to Bb either. There's a note in common. We've got a label for it because, yes, it sounds good and therefore people do it quite a lot.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f78141%2fthe-function-of-gm-g-b-chord-progression-in-shine-on-you-crazy-diamond%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The move from Gm to GbM is definitely not a standard “classical” progression, although it does start to happen more and more in the late Romantic era and in lots of Impressionist and other neo-tonal styles. It’s perhaps especially common in the triadic minimalism of composers like Philip Glass. I don’t think it’s super common in rock music, which might be part of why it sounds so fresh in the Pink Floyd example.
You’re exactly right that the “connective tissue” of the chord change is the Bb common tone. David Lewin called this move SLIDE, and neo-Riemannian theorists often call it P’ or “P prime,” because it’s the opposite of the connection they call P, which is short for parallel. P connects a major triad to its parallel minor counterpart and vice versa. This means the root and the fifth stay the same, and the third moves by a half step. P’ is the opposite, because, as you noted in your example, the third stays the same while both the root and fifth move by a half step. That’s why it’s the opposite of the parallel move.
Anyway, it’s an extremely cool sound, and it contributes a great deal to the moody effect of the beginning of “Shine on.”
EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, I just realized you also asked about the move from GbM to BbM as well. This move also includes a common tone—notably, the same Bb common tone as the previous move—and half step movements in the other two voices just like in the P’ move. Different voices and directions are involved though. The move is called a “chromatic mediant,” and that’s the name for any two chords with roots a third apart and the same quality (major or minor). There are many questions on the site that explain chromatic mediant a if you want more details.
add a comment |
The move from Gm to GbM is definitely not a standard “classical” progression, although it does start to happen more and more in the late Romantic era and in lots of Impressionist and other neo-tonal styles. It’s perhaps especially common in the triadic minimalism of composers like Philip Glass. I don’t think it’s super common in rock music, which might be part of why it sounds so fresh in the Pink Floyd example.
You’re exactly right that the “connective tissue” of the chord change is the Bb common tone. David Lewin called this move SLIDE, and neo-Riemannian theorists often call it P’ or “P prime,” because it’s the opposite of the connection they call P, which is short for parallel. P connects a major triad to its parallel minor counterpart and vice versa. This means the root and the fifth stay the same, and the third moves by a half step. P’ is the opposite, because, as you noted in your example, the third stays the same while both the root and fifth move by a half step. That’s why it’s the opposite of the parallel move.
Anyway, it’s an extremely cool sound, and it contributes a great deal to the moody effect of the beginning of “Shine on.”
EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, I just realized you also asked about the move from GbM to BbM as well. This move also includes a common tone—notably, the same Bb common tone as the previous move—and half step movements in the other two voices just like in the P’ move. Different voices and directions are involved though. The move is called a “chromatic mediant,” and that’s the name for any two chords with roots a third apart and the same quality (major or minor). There are many questions on the site that explain chromatic mediant a if you want more details.
add a comment |
The move from Gm to GbM is definitely not a standard “classical” progression, although it does start to happen more and more in the late Romantic era and in lots of Impressionist and other neo-tonal styles. It’s perhaps especially common in the triadic minimalism of composers like Philip Glass. I don’t think it’s super common in rock music, which might be part of why it sounds so fresh in the Pink Floyd example.
You’re exactly right that the “connective tissue” of the chord change is the Bb common tone. David Lewin called this move SLIDE, and neo-Riemannian theorists often call it P’ or “P prime,” because it’s the opposite of the connection they call P, which is short for parallel. P connects a major triad to its parallel minor counterpart and vice versa. This means the root and the fifth stay the same, and the third moves by a half step. P’ is the opposite, because, as you noted in your example, the third stays the same while both the root and fifth move by a half step. That’s why it’s the opposite of the parallel move.
Anyway, it’s an extremely cool sound, and it contributes a great deal to the moody effect of the beginning of “Shine on.”
EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, I just realized you also asked about the move from GbM to BbM as well. This move also includes a common tone—notably, the same Bb common tone as the previous move—and half step movements in the other two voices just like in the P’ move. Different voices and directions are involved though. The move is called a “chromatic mediant,” and that’s the name for any two chords with roots a third apart and the same quality (major or minor). There are many questions on the site that explain chromatic mediant a if you want more details.
The move from Gm to GbM is definitely not a standard “classical” progression, although it does start to happen more and more in the late Romantic era and in lots of Impressionist and other neo-tonal styles. It’s perhaps especially common in the triadic minimalism of composers like Philip Glass. I don’t think it’s super common in rock music, which might be part of why it sounds so fresh in the Pink Floyd example.
You’re exactly right that the “connective tissue” of the chord change is the Bb common tone. David Lewin called this move SLIDE, and neo-Riemannian theorists often call it P’ or “P prime,” because it’s the opposite of the connection they call P, which is short for parallel. P connects a major triad to its parallel minor counterpart and vice versa. This means the root and the fifth stay the same, and the third moves by a half step. P’ is the opposite, because, as you noted in your example, the third stays the same while both the root and fifth move by a half step. That’s why it’s the opposite of the parallel move.
Anyway, it’s an extremely cool sound, and it contributes a great deal to the moody effect of the beginning of “Shine on.”
EDIT TO ADD:
Sorry, I just realized you also asked about the move from GbM to BbM as well. This move also includes a common tone—notably, the same Bb common tone as the previous move—and half step movements in the other two voices just like in the P’ move. Different voices and directions are involved though. The move is called a “chromatic mediant,” and that’s the name for any two chords with roots a third apart and the same quality (major or minor). There are many questions on the site that explain chromatic mediant a if you want more details.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
Pat Muchmore
14.5k12871
14.5k12871
add a comment |
add a comment |
I had some trouble finding the part of the "song" you asked about. I assume it is this part starting at 4:59:
.
The tonality is G minor (I suppose G aeolian if you want to get picky.)
...what function does each chord serve?
If we are wearing out music theory hats, function means identifying the chords within a key and the harmonic roles of tonic, pre-dominant, or dominant.
This is how I labelled it...
Gm |Gb Bb |Eb dm cm Bb |F |
Gm: i |? III |VI v iv III|VII |
Right off the bat we see there isn't a dominant function. There isn't an actual V
or viio
. That isn't unusual in rock music. But it lets us know we are using a different playbook than that of classical harmony.
Of course the question is about the Gb
major chord.
Technically it's non-functional, because it isn't a chord from the key or a closely related key.
As @PatMuchmore points out Gb
is a chromatic mediant of Bb
. You might also say it's a chromatic passing chord, because of the step-wise motion connecting the chords. Although the bass moving by roots sort of undermines the idea of a passing chord. Also, the chord is harmonically important so calling it 'passing' isn't really appropriate.
If Roman numeral symbols is the concern, there isn't one to give it. Either skip it, or just write Gb
or 'chromatic mediant` under it.
It's worth noting that while many times a chromatic mediant chord is often a borrowed chord (like C
and Eb
in C major where the Eb
is borrowed from C minor) in this case the Gb
is not a borrowed chord.
Significantly, the Gb
could be respelled F#
in which case it becomes a non-functional chord built on the leading tone. In classical harmony that leading tone chord would be a diminished chord and strongly indicate the key. But that doesn't happen here. So while these chords on the whole are diatonic the progression eschews basic classical harmony.
Of course, calling Gb
non-functional should not be misconstrued to mean 'bad', 'wrong', 'weak', 'unimportant', etc. This chord creates the whole psychedelic feel of the progression. Without it the progression would be plain diatonic.
add a comment |
I had some trouble finding the part of the "song" you asked about. I assume it is this part starting at 4:59:
.
The tonality is G minor (I suppose G aeolian if you want to get picky.)
...what function does each chord serve?
If we are wearing out music theory hats, function means identifying the chords within a key and the harmonic roles of tonic, pre-dominant, or dominant.
This is how I labelled it...
Gm |Gb Bb |Eb dm cm Bb |F |
Gm: i |? III |VI v iv III|VII |
Right off the bat we see there isn't a dominant function. There isn't an actual V
or viio
. That isn't unusual in rock music. But it lets us know we are using a different playbook than that of classical harmony.
Of course the question is about the Gb
major chord.
Technically it's non-functional, because it isn't a chord from the key or a closely related key.
As @PatMuchmore points out Gb
is a chromatic mediant of Bb
. You might also say it's a chromatic passing chord, because of the step-wise motion connecting the chords. Although the bass moving by roots sort of undermines the idea of a passing chord. Also, the chord is harmonically important so calling it 'passing' isn't really appropriate.
If Roman numeral symbols is the concern, there isn't one to give it. Either skip it, or just write Gb
or 'chromatic mediant` under it.
It's worth noting that while many times a chromatic mediant chord is often a borrowed chord (like C
and Eb
in C major where the Eb
is borrowed from C minor) in this case the Gb
is not a borrowed chord.
Significantly, the Gb
could be respelled F#
in which case it becomes a non-functional chord built on the leading tone. In classical harmony that leading tone chord would be a diminished chord and strongly indicate the key. But that doesn't happen here. So while these chords on the whole are diatonic the progression eschews basic classical harmony.
Of course, calling Gb
non-functional should not be misconstrued to mean 'bad', 'wrong', 'weak', 'unimportant', etc. This chord creates the whole psychedelic feel of the progression. Without it the progression would be plain diatonic.
add a comment |
I had some trouble finding the part of the "song" you asked about. I assume it is this part starting at 4:59:
.
The tonality is G minor (I suppose G aeolian if you want to get picky.)
...what function does each chord serve?
If we are wearing out music theory hats, function means identifying the chords within a key and the harmonic roles of tonic, pre-dominant, or dominant.
This is how I labelled it...
Gm |Gb Bb |Eb dm cm Bb |F |
Gm: i |? III |VI v iv III|VII |
Right off the bat we see there isn't a dominant function. There isn't an actual V
or viio
. That isn't unusual in rock music. But it lets us know we are using a different playbook than that of classical harmony.
Of course the question is about the Gb
major chord.
Technically it's non-functional, because it isn't a chord from the key or a closely related key.
As @PatMuchmore points out Gb
is a chromatic mediant of Bb
. You might also say it's a chromatic passing chord, because of the step-wise motion connecting the chords. Although the bass moving by roots sort of undermines the idea of a passing chord. Also, the chord is harmonically important so calling it 'passing' isn't really appropriate.
If Roman numeral symbols is the concern, there isn't one to give it. Either skip it, or just write Gb
or 'chromatic mediant` under it.
It's worth noting that while many times a chromatic mediant chord is often a borrowed chord (like C
and Eb
in C major where the Eb
is borrowed from C minor) in this case the Gb
is not a borrowed chord.
Significantly, the Gb
could be respelled F#
in which case it becomes a non-functional chord built on the leading tone. In classical harmony that leading tone chord would be a diminished chord and strongly indicate the key. But that doesn't happen here. So while these chords on the whole are diatonic the progression eschews basic classical harmony.
Of course, calling Gb
non-functional should not be misconstrued to mean 'bad', 'wrong', 'weak', 'unimportant', etc. This chord creates the whole psychedelic feel of the progression. Without it the progression would be plain diatonic.
I had some trouble finding the part of the "song" you asked about. I assume it is this part starting at 4:59:
.
The tonality is G minor (I suppose G aeolian if you want to get picky.)
...what function does each chord serve?
If we are wearing out music theory hats, function means identifying the chords within a key and the harmonic roles of tonic, pre-dominant, or dominant.
This is how I labelled it...
Gm |Gb Bb |Eb dm cm Bb |F |
Gm: i |? III |VI v iv III|VII |
Right off the bat we see there isn't a dominant function. There isn't an actual V
or viio
. That isn't unusual in rock music. But it lets us know we are using a different playbook than that of classical harmony.
Of course the question is about the Gb
major chord.
Technically it's non-functional, because it isn't a chord from the key or a closely related key.
As @PatMuchmore points out Gb
is a chromatic mediant of Bb
. You might also say it's a chromatic passing chord, because of the step-wise motion connecting the chords. Although the bass moving by roots sort of undermines the idea of a passing chord. Also, the chord is harmonically important so calling it 'passing' isn't really appropriate.
If Roman numeral symbols is the concern, there isn't one to give it. Either skip it, or just write Gb
or 'chromatic mediant` under it.
It's worth noting that while many times a chromatic mediant chord is often a borrowed chord (like C
and Eb
in C major where the Eb
is borrowed from C minor) in this case the Gb
is not a borrowed chord.
Significantly, the Gb
could be respelled F#
in which case it becomes a non-functional chord built on the leading tone. In classical harmony that leading tone chord would be a diminished chord and strongly indicate the key. But that doesn't happen here. So while these chords on the whole are diatonic the progression eschews basic classical harmony.
Of course, calling Gb
non-functional should not be misconstrued to mean 'bad', 'wrong', 'weak', 'unimportant', etc. This chord creates the whole psychedelic feel of the progression. Without it the progression would be plain diatonic.
edited 11 hours ago
answered yesterday
Michael Curtis
5,810326
5,810326
add a comment |
add a comment |
Although Michael Curtis said otherwise, I would argue that this is a borrowed chord.
Basically the G♭ is used to give the move to from gm to its relative major B♭ the character of a proper modulation like you'd find in classical pieces. If the progression were just something like
gm E♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ - Ⅲ
or even
gm F - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅶ - Ⅲ
then the B♭ would sound just like a Ⅲ with a clear expectation of dropping right back into gm. If we instead make it
gm F₇ - B♭
then this changes somewhat: the F₇ is a more forcing dominant, and now it sounds more like
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅴ(/B♭)₇ - Ⅰ(/B♭)
Thereby, the B♭ chord effects a more prominent “opening up”, really places us in a major mood instead of just tossing in a major sound into the minor key. But the Ⅴ₇ - Ⅰ resolution is a bit too much of a classical cliché and would feel rather out of place in this piece.
What Pink Floyd do instead is cleverer: seen from the target key B♭, a chord is burrowed from its parallel key, i.e.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | ♭Ⅵ(/B♭) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
with the ♭Ⅵ burrowed from the key of b♭-minor, i.e. we could also write.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ(/b♭m) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
This reinforces the opening-up character further, because if we're effectively coming from the key of b♭m then the B♭ major chord has something of a Picardy third effect. I could lean further out of the window and say this foreshadows the clear Picardy-third ending of Part Ⅸ of the piece, but that's probably a bit too much of a leap.
That B♭ is a common tone to all these chords is certainly a relevant observation too, but I don't feel this is really important for the progression. I don't intuitively hear any pedal-tone effect in this part of the piece.
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Although Michael Curtis said otherwise, I would argue that this is a borrowed chord.
Basically the G♭ is used to give the move to from gm to its relative major B♭ the character of a proper modulation like you'd find in classical pieces. If the progression were just something like
gm E♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ - Ⅲ
or even
gm F - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅶ - Ⅲ
then the B♭ would sound just like a Ⅲ with a clear expectation of dropping right back into gm. If we instead make it
gm F₇ - B♭
then this changes somewhat: the F₇ is a more forcing dominant, and now it sounds more like
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅴ(/B♭)₇ - Ⅰ(/B♭)
Thereby, the B♭ chord effects a more prominent “opening up”, really places us in a major mood instead of just tossing in a major sound into the minor key. But the Ⅴ₇ - Ⅰ resolution is a bit too much of a classical cliché and would feel rather out of place in this piece.
What Pink Floyd do instead is cleverer: seen from the target key B♭, a chord is burrowed from its parallel key, i.e.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | ♭Ⅵ(/B♭) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
with the ♭Ⅵ burrowed from the key of b♭-minor, i.e. we could also write.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ(/b♭m) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
This reinforces the opening-up character further, because if we're effectively coming from the key of b♭m then the B♭ major chord has something of a Picardy third effect. I could lean further out of the window and say this foreshadows the clear Picardy-third ending of Part Ⅸ of the piece, but that's probably a bit too much of a leap.
That B♭ is a common tone to all these chords is certainly a relevant observation too, but I don't feel this is really important for the progression. I don't intuitively hear any pedal-tone effect in this part of the piece.
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
add a comment |
Although Michael Curtis said otherwise, I would argue that this is a borrowed chord.
Basically the G♭ is used to give the move to from gm to its relative major B♭ the character of a proper modulation like you'd find in classical pieces. If the progression were just something like
gm E♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ - Ⅲ
or even
gm F - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅶ - Ⅲ
then the B♭ would sound just like a Ⅲ with a clear expectation of dropping right back into gm. If we instead make it
gm F₇ - B♭
then this changes somewhat: the F₇ is a more forcing dominant, and now it sounds more like
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅴ(/B♭)₇ - Ⅰ(/B♭)
Thereby, the B♭ chord effects a more prominent “opening up”, really places us in a major mood instead of just tossing in a major sound into the minor key. But the Ⅴ₇ - Ⅰ resolution is a bit too much of a classical cliché and would feel rather out of place in this piece.
What Pink Floyd do instead is cleverer: seen from the target key B♭, a chord is burrowed from its parallel key, i.e.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | ♭Ⅵ(/B♭) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
with the ♭Ⅵ burrowed from the key of b♭-minor, i.e. we could also write.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ(/b♭m) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
This reinforces the opening-up character further, because if we're effectively coming from the key of b♭m then the B♭ major chord has something of a Picardy third effect. I could lean further out of the window and say this foreshadows the clear Picardy-third ending of Part Ⅸ of the piece, but that's probably a bit too much of a leap.
That B♭ is a common tone to all these chords is certainly a relevant observation too, but I don't feel this is really important for the progression. I don't intuitively hear any pedal-tone effect in this part of the piece.
Although Michael Curtis said otherwise, I would argue that this is a borrowed chord.
Basically the G♭ is used to give the move to from gm to its relative major B♭ the character of a proper modulation like you'd find in classical pieces. If the progression were just something like
gm E♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ - Ⅲ
or even
gm F - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅶ - Ⅲ
then the B♭ would sound just like a Ⅲ with a clear expectation of dropping right back into gm. If we instead make it
gm F₇ - B♭
then this changes somewhat: the F₇ is a more forcing dominant, and now it sounds more like
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅴ(/B♭)₇ - Ⅰ(/B♭)
Thereby, the B♭ chord effects a more prominent “opening up”, really places us in a major mood instead of just tossing in a major sound into the minor key. But the Ⅴ₇ - Ⅰ resolution is a bit too much of a classical cliché and would feel rather out of place in this piece.
What Pink Floyd do instead is cleverer: seen from the target key B♭, a chord is burrowed from its parallel key, i.e.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | ♭Ⅵ(/B♭) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
with the ♭Ⅵ burrowed from the key of b♭-minor, i.e. we could also write.
gm G♭ - B♭
ⅰ(/gm) | Ⅵ(/b♭m) - Ⅰ(/B♭)
This reinforces the opening-up character further, because if we're effectively coming from the key of b♭m then the B♭ major chord has something of a Picardy third effect. I could lean further out of the window and say this foreshadows the clear Picardy-third ending of Part Ⅸ of the piece, but that's probably a bit too much of a leap.
That B♭ is a common tone to all these chords is certainly a relevant observation too, but I don't feel this is really important for the progression. I don't intuitively hear any pedal-tone effect in this part of the piece.
edited 8 hours ago
Todd Wilcox
33.8k258112
33.8k258112
answered yesterday
leftaroundabout
19k3383
19k3383
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
add a comment |
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I had a similar thought along the lines of your analysis. Bb as the center. The melody dwells on Bb and then also the final F chord of the phrase would be a sort of dominant. In the end I stayed with Gm as center given its use through out the rest of the other parts.
– Michael Curtis
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
I agree the key of the piece is definitely gm, but I've always found the B♭ chord to sound very sweet and homely there. Never really knew why, but when I thought about it for this question the burrowed-chord / Picardy-third interpretation jumped right at me.
– leftaroundabout
14 hours ago
add a comment |
"It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me."
And there we have it. There's a note in common, Bb. That's about all the 'theory' we're going to find to justify this progression (if we can call a non-functional series if chords a 'progression').
There's not really much more to say about the 'chromatic mediant' Gb to Bb either. There's a note in common. We've got a label for it because, yes, it sounds good and therefore people do it quite a lot.
add a comment |
"It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me."
And there we have it. There's a note in common, Bb. That's about all the 'theory' we're going to find to justify this progression (if we can call a non-functional series if chords a 'progression').
There's not really much more to say about the 'chromatic mediant' Gb to Bb either. There's a note in common. We've got a label for it because, yes, it sounds good and therefore people do it quite a lot.
add a comment |
"It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me."
And there we have it. There's a note in common, Bb. That's about all the 'theory' we're going to find to justify this progression (if we can call a non-functional series if chords a 'progression').
There's not really much more to say about the 'chromatic mediant' Gb to Bb either. There's a note in common. We've got a label for it because, yes, it sounds good and therefore people do it quite a lot.
"It sounds nice, but not like classical harmony to me."
And there we have it. There's a note in common, Bb. That's about all the 'theory' we're going to find to justify this progression (if we can call a non-functional series if chords a 'progression').
There's not really much more to say about the 'chromatic mediant' Gb to Bb either. There's a note in common. We've got a label for it because, yes, it sounds good and therefore people do it quite a lot.
answered yesterday
Laurence Payne
31.9k1559
31.9k1559
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f78141%2fthe-function-of-gm-g-b-chord-progression-in-shine-on-you-crazy-diamond%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
3
Truly strange: The moment I saw that question in the "Hot Network" sidebar, the song was actually running on the radio...
– ccprog
13 hours ago