Is Nietzsche's proposed etymology of “bonus” (good) correct?
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In the first treatise of On the Genealogy of Morality, §5, Nietzsche proposes the following derivation of bonus (good):
I believe I may interpret the Latin bonus as "the warrior": assuing that I am correct in tracing bonus back to an older duonus (compare bellum = duellum = duen-lum, in which that duonus seems to me to be preserved). Bonus accordingly as man of strife, of division (duo), as man of war--one sees what it was about a man that constituted his "goodness" in ancient Rome. (translation by Clark and Swensen)
Obviously, a lot of important etymological scholarship by more level heads has happened since 1887. Is Nietzsche's proposed etymology for bonus plausible?
etymologia philosophy
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In the first treatise of On the Genealogy of Morality, §5, Nietzsche proposes the following derivation of bonus (good):
I believe I may interpret the Latin bonus as "the warrior": assuing that I am correct in tracing bonus back to an older duonus (compare bellum = duellum = duen-lum, in which that duonus seems to me to be preserved). Bonus accordingly as man of strife, of division (duo), as man of war--one sees what it was about a man that constituted his "goodness" in ancient Rome. (translation by Clark and Swensen)
Obviously, a lot of important etymological scholarship by more level heads has happened since 1887. Is Nietzsche's proposed etymology for bonus plausible?
etymologia philosophy
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
In the first treatise of On the Genealogy of Morality, §5, Nietzsche proposes the following derivation of bonus (good):
I believe I may interpret the Latin bonus as "the warrior": assuing that I am correct in tracing bonus back to an older duonus (compare bellum = duellum = duen-lum, in which that duonus seems to me to be preserved). Bonus accordingly as man of strife, of division (duo), as man of war--one sees what it was about a man that constituted his "goodness" in ancient Rome. (translation by Clark and Swensen)
Obviously, a lot of important etymological scholarship by more level heads has happened since 1887. Is Nietzsche's proposed etymology for bonus plausible?
etymologia philosophy
In the first treatise of On the Genealogy of Morality, §5, Nietzsche proposes the following derivation of bonus (good):
I believe I may interpret the Latin bonus as "the warrior": assuing that I am correct in tracing bonus back to an older duonus (compare bellum = duellum = duen-lum, in which that duonus seems to me to be preserved). Bonus accordingly as man of strife, of division (duo), as man of war--one sees what it was about a man that constituted his "goodness" in ancient Rome. (translation by Clark and Swensen)
Obviously, a lot of important etymological scholarship by more level heads has happened since 1887. Is Nietzsche's proposed etymology for bonus plausible?
etymologia philosophy
etymologia philosophy
asked 11 hours ago
brianpck
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This etymology is not accepted by modern scholars, though the ultimate origin of "bonus" is contested. I cannot get de Vaan to scan properly, but here is Walde:
Here is a transcription from the German source in the image:
bonus „gut“, altlat. duonus, noch älter Duenos (nicht damit ablautend; vgl. Thurneysen KZ. XXXV, 204, Pedersen KZ. XXXVI, 91), vgl. auch bene, bellus: nach Darmesteter De conjug. latini verbi dare (1876), 26 ff. , Osthoff MU. IV, 370 ptc. auf -eno- zur Wurzel von ai. dúvaḥ n. „Gabe, Ehrerweisung“, duvasyáti „ehrt, verehrt, erkennt an, belohnt“, duvasyú-ḥ, duvōyú-ḥ „verehrend, ehrerbietig“, wozu auch lat. beāre „beglücken, erquicken“, beātus „selig, glücklich“ ; hierher nach Wood Mod. Philology IV, 499 als idg. *du̯ei-to- vermutlich auch mnd. twīden „willfahren, gewähren, bewilligen, erhören“, mhd. zwīden ds., md. getwedic „zahm, willfährig“, vgl. auch as. tu(g)iđon „gewähren“, ags. tygđian, tīđian ds.; die Bed. „durch Gaben, durch Beschenkung ehren oder erfreuen“ (woraus die Bed. von ital. *du̯-ei̯ō, *du̯-enos sich leicht ergibt) ist der Hirt'schen (IF. XXI, 169ff.) Anknüpfung der Sippe an alat. duim usw. „ich möge geben“ (s. dō; er führt idg. *dō-, *dōu̯- auf älteres *dou̯e- zurück) günstig. Sehr fraglich ist Zugehörigkeit von dautia, lautia, s. d.
Wenig ansprechend ist Fröhdes BB. IX, 111, Ficks I4, 457, II4, 150 (ebenso Prellwitz Gr. Wb. unter δύναμαι) Verbindung von bonus mit einer Wz. *dū-:*deu̯ā- „stark, fest“ in gr. δύναμαι.
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
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To answer the question; of course it is.
You don't have to be of the same opinion of him, but the linguistic reasoning is sound. He has presented the logic very reasonably and here is a truth table:
if bellum = duellum then bonus = duonus.
Plus the ancients were fond of war: just consider the phrase "to have had a good war."
New contributor
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
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I agree with Octavius Octavian
@brianpck The logic is sound: du = du, and duellum - du = ellum, much in the same way that du = du, and duonus - du = onus. Now in both cases where b = d, the results are the same: bonus and bellum.
Let's not ignore the consistency of the 'goodness of war' being implied in the etymology of both words.
New contributor
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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active
oldest
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active
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up vote
9
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This etymology is not accepted by modern scholars, though the ultimate origin of "bonus" is contested. I cannot get de Vaan to scan properly, but here is Walde:
Here is a transcription from the German source in the image:
bonus „gut“, altlat. duonus, noch älter Duenos (nicht damit ablautend; vgl. Thurneysen KZ. XXXV, 204, Pedersen KZ. XXXVI, 91), vgl. auch bene, bellus: nach Darmesteter De conjug. latini verbi dare (1876), 26 ff. , Osthoff MU. IV, 370 ptc. auf -eno- zur Wurzel von ai. dúvaḥ n. „Gabe, Ehrerweisung“, duvasyáti „ehrt, verehrt, erkennt an, belohnt“, duvasyú-ḥ, duvōyú-ḥ „verehrend, ehrerbietig“, wozu auch lat. beāre „beglücken, erquicken“, beātus „selig, glücklich“ ; hierher nach Wood Mod. Philology IV, 499 als idg. *du̯ei-to- vermutlich auch mnd. twīden „willfahren, gewähren, bewilligen, erhören“, mhd. zwīden ds., md. getwedic „zahm, willfährig“, vgl. auch as. tu(g)iđon „gewähren“, ags. tygđian, tīđian ds.; die Bed. „durch Gaben, durch Beschenkung ehren oder erfreuen“ (woraus die Bed. von ital. *du̯-ei̯ō, *du̯-enos sich leicht ergibt) ist der Hirt'schen (IF. XXI, 169ff.) Anknüpfung der Sippe an alat. duim usw. „ich möge geben“ (s. dō; er führt idg. *dō-, *dōu̯- auf älteres *dou̯e- zurück) günstig. Sehr fraglich ist Zugehörigkeit von dautia, lautia, s. d.
Wenig ansprechend ist Fröhdes BB. IX, 111, Ficks I4, 457, II4, 150 (ebenso Prellwitz Gr. Wb. unter δύναμαι) Verbindung von bonus mit einer Wz. *dū-:*deu̯ā- „stark, fest“ in gr. δύναμαι.
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
This etymology is not accepted by modern scholars, though the ultimate origin of "bonus" is contested. I cannot get de Vaan to scan properly, but here is Walde:
Here is a transcription from the German source in the image:
bonus „gut“, altlat. duonus, noch älter Duenos (nicht damit ablautend; vgl. Thurneysen KZ. XXXV, 204, Pedersen KZ. XXXVI, 91), vgl. auch bene, bellus: nach Darmesteter De conjug. latini verbi dare (1876), 26 ff. , Osthoff MU. IV, 370 ptc. auf -eno- zur Wurzel von ai. dúvaḥ n. „Gabe, Ehrerweisung“, duvasyáti „ehrt, verehrt, erkennt an, belohnt“, duvasyú-ḥ, duvōyú-ḥ „verehrend, ehrerbietig“, wozu auch lat. beāre „beglücken, erquicken“, beātus „selig, glücklich“ ; hierher nach Wood Mod. Philology IV, 499 als idg. *du̯ei-to- vermutlich auch mnd. twīden „willfahren, gewähren, bewilligen, erhören“, mhd. zwīden ds., md. getwedic „zahm, willfährig“, vgl. auch as. tu(g)iđon „gewähren“, ags. tygđian, tīđian ds.; die Bed. „durch Gaben, durch Beschenkung ehren oder erfreuen“ (woraus die Bed. von ital. *du̯-ei̯ō, *du̯-enos sich leicht ergibt) ist der Hirt'schen (IF. XXI, 169ff.) Anknüpfung der Sippe an alat. duim usw. „ich möge geben“ (s. dō; er führt idg. *dō-, *dōu̯- auf älteres *dou̯e- zurück) günstig. Sehr fraglich ist Zugehörigkeit von dautia, lautia, s. d.
Wenig ansprechend ist Fröhdes BB. IX, 111, Ficks I4, 457, II4, 150 (ebenso Prellwitz Gr. Wb. unter δύναμαι) Verbindung von bonus mit einer Wz. *dū-:*deu̯ā- „stark, fest“ in gr. δύναμαι.
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
9
down vote
up vote
9
down vote
This etymology is not accepted by modern scholars, though the ultimate origin of "bonus" is contested. I cannot get de Vaan to scan properly, but here is Walde:
Here is a transcription from the German source in the image:
bonus „gut“, altlat. duonus, noch älter Duenos (nicht damit ablautend; vgl. Thurneysen KZ. XXXV, 204, Pedersen KZ. XXXVI, 91), vgl. auch bene, bellus: nach Darmesteter De conjug. latini verbi dare (1876), 26 ff. , Osthoff MU. IV, 370 ptc. auf -eno- zur Wurzel von ai. dúvaḥ n. „Gabe, Ehrerweisung“, duvasyáti „ehrt, verehrt, erkennt an, belohnt“, duvasyú-ḥ, duvōyú-ḥ „verehrend, ehrerbietig“, wozu auch lat. beāre „beglücken, erquicken“, beātus „selig, glücklich“ ; hierher nach Wood Mod. Philology IV, 499 als idg. *du̯ei-to- vermutlich auch mnd. twīden „willfahren, gewähren, bewilligen, erhören“, mhd. zwīden ds., md. getwedic „zahm, willfährig“, vgl. auch as. tu(g)iđon „gewähren“, ags. tygđian, tīđian ds.; die Bed. „durch Gaben, durch Beschenkung ehren oder erfreuen“ (woraus die Bed. von ital. *du̯-ei̯ō, *du̯-enos sich leicht ergibt) ist der Hirt'schen (IF. XXI, 169ff.) Anknüpfung der Sippe an alat. duim usw. „ich möge geben“ (s. dō; er führt idg. *dō-, *dōu̯- auf älteres *dou̯e- zurück) günstig. Sehr fraglich ist Zugehörigkeit von dautia, lautia, s. d.
Wenig ansprechend ist Fröhdes BB. IX, 111, Ficks I4, 457, II4, 150 (ebenso Prellwitz Gr. Wb. unter δύναμαι) Verbindung von bonus mit einer Wz. *dū-:*deu̯ā- „stark, fest“ in gr. δύναμαι.
This etymology is not accepted by modern scholars, though the ultimate origin of "bonus" is contested. I cannot get de Vaan to scan properly, but here is Walde:
Here is a transcription from the German source in the image:
bonus „gut“, altlat. duonus, noch älter Duenos (nicht damit ablautend; vgl. Thurneysen KZ. XXXV, 204, Pedersen KZ. XXXVI, 91), vgl. auch bene, bellus: nach Darmesteter De conjug. latini verbi dare (1876), 26 ff. , Osthoff MU. IV, 370 ptc. auf -eno- zur Wurzel von ai. dúvaḥ n. „Gabe, Ehrerweisung“, duvasyáti „ehrt, verehrt, erkennt an, belohnt“, duvasyú-ḥ, duvōyú-ḥ „verehrend, ehrerbietig“, wozu auch lat. beāre „beglücken, erquicken“, beātus „selig, glücklich“ ; hierher nach Wood Mod. Philology IV, 499 als idg. *du̯ei-to- vermutlich auch mnd. twīden „willfahren, gewähren, bewilligen, erhören“, mhd. zwīden ds., md. getwedic „zahm, willfährig“, vgl. auch as. tu(g)iđon „gewähren“, ags. tygđian, tīđian ds.; die Bed. „durch Gaben, durch Beschenkung ehren oder erfreuen“ (woraus die Bed. von ital. *du̯-ei̯ō, *du̯-enos sich leicht ergibt) ist der Hirt'schen (IF. XXI, 169ff.) Anknüpfung der Sippe an alat. duim usw. „ich möge geben“ (s. dō; er führt idg. *dō-, *dōu̯- auf älteres *dou̯e- zurück) günstig. Sehr fraglich ist Zugehörigkeit von dautia, lautia, s. d.
Wenig ansprechend ist Fröhdes BB. IX, 111, Ficks I4, 457, II4, 150 (ebenso Prellwitz Gr. Wb. unter δύναμαι) Verbindung von bonus mit einer Wz. *dū-:*deu̯ā- „stark, fest“ in gr. δύναμαι.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 11 hours ago
fdb
10.4k11126
10.4k11126
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
1
1
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
Would it be possible to include a text transcription for those of us that have visual impairments that make it difficult to read text in an image? It would also make the text searchable.
– Thunderforge
9 hours ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
de Vaan literally says this (s.v. bellum): "The best etymology for duellum [i.e. Old Latin for bellum - A.B.] so far has been proposed by Pinault 1987, who posits a dim. *duenelo- to bonus."
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
To expand on @AlexB.'s comment, de Vaan's explanation of the putative semantic link is this: "If *duenelo- meant 'quite good, quite brave', its use in the context of war (bella acta, bella gesta) could be understood as a euphemism, ultimately yielding a meaning 'action of valour, war' for the noun bellum". To me this sounds rather strained, especially given that de Vaan himself says of bellus (s.v. bonus) that it "was originally used to refer to women and children; it was applied to men only ironically".
– TKR
6 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
To answer the question; of course it is.
You don't have to be of the same opinion of him, but the linguistic reasoning is sound. He has presented the logic very reasonably and here is a truth table:
if bellum = duellum then bonus = duonus.
Plus the ancients were fond of war: just consider the phrase "to have had a good war."
New contributor
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
To answer the question; of course it is.
You don't have to be of the same opinion of him, but the linguistic reasoning is sound. He has presented the logic very reasonably and here is a truth table:
if bellum = duellum then bonus = duonus.
Plus the ancients were fond of war: just consider the phrase "to have had a good war."
New contributor
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
To answer the question; of course it is.
You don't have to be of the same opinion of him, but the linguistic reasoning is sound. He has presented the logic very reasonably and here is a truth table:
if bellum = duellum then bonus = duonus.
Plus the ancients were fond of war: just consider the phrase "to have had a good war."
New contributor
To answer the question; of course it is.
You don't have to be of the same opinion of him, but the linguistic reasoning is sound. He has presented the logic very reasonably and here is a truth table:
if bellum = duellum then bonus = duonus.
Plus the ancients were fond of war: just consider the phrase "to have had a good war."
New contributor
New contributor
answered 5 hours ago
Octavius Octavian
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
add a comment |
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
4
4
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
I don't think that follows, e.g. bos =/= duos. Note that even Nietzsche's language ("assuming I am correct," "seems to me") is much less certain than the way you present it.
– brianpck
5 hours ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
Is "to have had a good war" ancient? I think of it as 20th century.
– TKR
3 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
I agree with Octavius Octavian
@brianpck The logic is sound: du = du, and duellum - du = ellum, much in the same way that du = du, and duonus - du = onus. Now in both cases where b = d, the results are the same: bonus and bellum.
Let's not ignore the consistency of the 'goodness of war' being implied in the etymology of both words.
New contributor
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
I agree with Octavius Octavian
@brianpck The logic is sound: du = du, and duellum - du = ellum, much in the same way that du = du, and duonus - du = onus. Now in both cases where b = d, the results are the same: bonus and bellum.
Let's not ignore the consistency of the 'goodness of war' being implied in the etymology of both words.
New contributor
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
I agree with Octavius Octavian
@brianpck The logic is sound: du = du, and duellum - du = ellum, much in the same way that du = du, and duonus - du = onus. Now in both cases where b = d, the results are the same: bonus and bellum.
Let's not ignore the consistency of the 'goodness of war' being implied in the etymology of both words.
New contributor
I agree with Octavius Octavian
@brianpck The logic is sound: du = du, and duellum - du = ellum, much in the same way that du = du, and duonus - du = onus. Now in both cases where b = d, the results are the same: bonus and bellum.
Let's not ignore the consistency of the 'goodness of war' being implied in the etymology of both words.
New contributor
edited 4 hours ago
New contributor
answered 4 hours ago
Octavian
111
111
New contributor
New contributor
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
add a comment |
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
1
1
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
bellum/duellum "war" is cognate with Greek duh "agony", while bellus "beautiful" comes from an old diminutive of bonus/duenos. They're not related. And a single word's analogy isn't a solid argument: as Brian pointed out, bos "cow" ≠ duos "two".
– Draconis
2 hours ago
5
5
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
This is a little silly: the unstated premise is that, "If a subset of letters behaves in a certain way for one word, it behaves in the same way for all words." Considering that optumus is a variant spelling of optimus, you would need to claim that all i's in Latin can be replaced by u's. It's a clear reductio ad absurdum.
– brianpck
2 hours ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@Draconis why do you think that bellum (OL duellum) and bonus (OL duenos) are not related?
– Alex B.
1 hour ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
@AlexB. The etymology I've heard is that duellum is from PIE *d-h₂w "destroy" (> AGrk δύη "agony") while duenos is from PIE *d-w "revere" (> Lat beāre "bless"). But I wouldn't be surprised if de Vaan has something newer/more accurate.
– Draconis
49 mins ago
add a comment |
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