How can communism be totalitarian?
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
migrated from history.stackexchange.com yesterday
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
migrated from history.stackexchange.com yesterday
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
4
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
1
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
1
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
political-history communism
asked yesterday
santimirandarp
1254
1254
migrated from history.stackexchange.com yesterday
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
migrated from history.stackexchange.com yesterday
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
4
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
1
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
1
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
4
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
1
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
1
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
4
4
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
1
1
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
1
1
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
answered yesterday
Samuel Russell
3,1941131
3,1941131
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
add a comment |
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
5
5
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
yesterday
3
3
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
yesterday
2
2
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@PieterGeerkens Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The Venezuelan food crisis is a result of a wrong bet on economic development which hits the whole country equally. The holodomor was a man-made famine with the goal to depopulate a specific area.
– Philipp♦
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
@Philipp As cited above, Tauger (1991), you might wish to read the FUTON article and apply Hanlon's razor again. Both Tauger and myself appear to believe that stupidity / incompetence does not excuse preventable famine, yet, that it was not an intentional depopulation strategy. The 1931 & 1933/4 extractions ought to be evidence enough of gross culpable incompetence over deliberate depopulation. We might want to posit a question on history.se over theories of Soviet culpability in the 1932-1933 famine's depopulation effects.
– Samuel Russell
16 hours ago
add a comment |
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fpolitics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f35589%2fhow-can-communism-be-totalitarian%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
yesterday
4
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
23 hours ago
1
@jamesqf Indeed. And then there's history, which shows us that literally every nation-scale communist government that has ever existed has been totalitarian.
– reirab
20 hours ago
@jamesqf But are there not Americans who think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve?
– Paul Johnson
17 hours ago
1
@jamesqf As opposed to our capitalist ecomonies, which are fundamentally based on people not getting the full value of their labour? We have that problem -now-, most people are working harder than they need to for less money than they deserve. It's a universal story for the lowest paid workers to be overworked, underpaid, while the highest earners earn 250-300x what they do. We aren't under totalitarian governments, though.
– Phoshi
15 hours ago