Are there historical references that show that “diatonic” is a version of 'di-tonic' meaning 'two...












2















Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic



But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.



This is also the position of a music theory website ...



http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...



"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."



But there is no historical reference here.



Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?










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  • 4





    Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

    – replete
    6 hours ago
















2















Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic



But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.



This is also the position of a music theory website ...



http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...



"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."



But there is no historical reference here.



Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?










share|improve this question


















  • 4





    Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

    – replete
    6 hours ago














2












2








2








Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic



But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.



This is also the position of a music theory website ...



http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...



"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."



But there is no historical reference here.



Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?










share|improve this question














Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic



But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.



This is also the position of a music theory website ...



http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...



"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."



But there is no historical reference here.



Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?







theory history






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











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asked 7 hours ago









Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210




390210








  • 4





    Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

    – replete
    6 hours ago














  • 4





    Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

    – replete
    6 hours ago








4




4





Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

– replete
6 hours ago





Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.

– replete
6 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3














Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

    – Randy Zeitman
    5 hours ago











  • I think the Greek might be διατονικό

    – Tom Serb
    3 hours ago











  • @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

    – replete
    2 hours ago











  • @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

    – user45266
    1 hour ago



















2














The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.



"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".






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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    active

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    active

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    3














    Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















    • Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

      – Randy Zeitman
      5 hours ago











    • I think the Greek might be διατονικό

      – Tom Serb
      3 hours ago











    • @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

      – replete
      2 hours ago











    • @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

      – user45266
      1 hour ago
















    3














    Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















    • Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

      – Randy Zeitman
      5 hours ago











    • I think the Greek might be διατονικό

      – Tom Serb
      3 hours ago











    • @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

      – replete
      2 hours ago











    • @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

      – user45266
      1 hour ago














    3












    3








    3







    Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.










    Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer






    New contributor




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    answered 6 hours ago









    user57883user57883

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    New contributor





    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.













    • Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

      – Randy Zeitman
      5 hours ago











    • I think the Greek might be διατονικό

      – Tom Serb
      3 hours ago











    • @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

      – replete
      2 hours ago











    • @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

      – user45266
      1 hour ago



















    • Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

      – Randy Zeitman
      5 hours ago











    • I think the Greek might be διατονικό

      – Tom Serb
      3 hours ago











    • @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

      – replete
      2 hours ago











    • @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

      – user45266
      1 hour ago

















    Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

    – Randy Zeitman
    5 hours ago





    Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.

    – Randy Zeitman
    5 hours ago













    I think the Greek might be διατονικό

    – Tom Serb
    3 hours ago





    I think the Greek might be διατονικό

    – Tom Serb
    3 hours ago













    @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

    – replete
    2 hours ago





    @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…

    – replete
    2 hours ago













    @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

    – user45266
    1 hour ago





    @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.

    – user45266
    1 hour ago











    2














    The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.



    "dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".






    share|improve this answer




























      2














      The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.



      "dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".






      share|improve this answer


























        2












        2








        2







        The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.



        "dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".






        share|improve this answer













        The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.



        "dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 3 hours ago









        Tom SerbTom Serb

        3067




        3067






























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