How is graphics RAM different from system RAM?
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I know that a GPU and a CPU are fundamentally different things and why they both suck at doing the other's job. But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
As I understand it, they're both just different types of DRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon. The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops. Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both? What makes them different?
memory graphics-card cpu
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up vote
38
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I know that a GPU and a CPU are fundamentally different things and why they both suck at doing the other's job. But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
As I understand it, they're both just different types of DRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon. The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops. Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both? What makes them different?
memory graphics-card cpu
I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
38
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favorite
up vote
38
down vote
favorite
I know that a GPU and a CPU are fundamentally different things and why they both suck at doing the other's job. But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
As I understand it, they're both just different types of DRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon. The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops. Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both? What makes them different?
memory graphics-card cpu
I know that a GPU and a CPU are fundamentally different things and why they both suck at doing the other's job. But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
As I understand it, they're both just different types of DRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon. The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops. Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both? What makes them different?
memory graphics-card cpu
memory graphics-card cpu
asked yesterday
Wes Sayeed
10.5k32756
10.5k32756
I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago
I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago
I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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up vote
46
down vote
But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
The GDDR specification, while based on the DDR standard, has its own hardware specification. The DDR specification is technically ahead of the GDDR specification, since GDDR is based on the previous DDR specification (most of the time, except when it's based on the previous GDDR specification).
One of the reasons there is a false belief that GDDR is ahead of DDR is that there have been multiple iterations of the GDDR standard that were based on DDR3. This was also the case with GDDR2, being that its specification has design elements from both DDR and DDR2.
However, it is important to note that this GDDR2 memory used on graphics cards is not DDR2 per se, but rather an early midpoint between DDR and DDR2 technologies. Using "DDR2" to refer to GDDR2 is a colloquial misnomer.
Source: DDR2 SDRAM
Likewise, GDDR4 and GDDR5 both took design elements from DDR3. GDDR5 obviously is an improved GDDR design, when compared to GDDR4.
Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory, which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR5 also uses 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4 and DDR3 SDRAM.
Source: GDDR5 SDRAM
As I understand it, they're both just different types of SDRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon.
The two standards are actually vastly different. The difference in the number of bits that can be transferred over a data line is one of those differences. The GDDR specification is not compatible with Intel and AMD x86 processors. The GDDR specification is able to transfer more bits, due to it being connected to an entirely different connection, mainly PCI-e (within the specification of the various revisions of this standard).
The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops.
This is due to the fact that GDDR4 is based off the DDR3 specification, not the DDR2 specification. The DDR3 standard wasn't ratified until 2005. We didn't see products until 2007 due to entirely different market needs. GDDR4 was announced in 2005 and didn't see products until 2007. So you can see that while they have different names, the actual products were released together.
- GDDR4 SDRAM
- DDR3 SDRAM
Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
The current GDDR standard(s) are actually GDDR5X and GDDR6. HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is a Hynix and Samsung DDR manufacturing process.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both?
The two standards are not compatible with one another.
What makes them different?
What makes them different is their manufacturing process and their specifications. While GDDR is based off the DDR specification, GDDR is not actually ahead of DDR, although there huge performance gaps between the two standards at this point due to the available bandwidth that GDDR has access to.
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
|
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up vote
25
down vote
The underlying tech is more or less the same, GPUs just leverage a much wider memory bus.
GPUs are easier to design this way as a single unit where many memory modules can be directly connected to the processing unit through a custom circuit board. This allows for a very wide memory bus, often exceeding 256-bits. HBM takes this further with with a 1024-bit bus.
CPUs rely on a much more generalized architecture of sockets and motherboard specifications, so more than the standard two 64-bit channels is typically reserved to the high-end and server market.
It should also be mentioned that GPU memory is tuned to trade latency performance for high bandwidth - lots of shoveling and not a lot of seeking. This is not the case with CPU memory where low latency is desired for good random access speeds.
New contributor
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
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up vote
1
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One special feature of some types of graphics RAM is that they can be accessed by two independent or mostly independent bus systems - which makes using them as either framebuffers (the portion of video ram where the pixels sent to the screen every 1/60th or so second are kept) or texture buffers easier and doable with less access conflicts and overhead....
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
46
down vote
But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
The GDDR specification, while based on the DDR standard, has its own hardware specification. The DDR specification is technically ahead of the GDDR specification, since GDDR is based on the previous DDR specification (most of the time, except when it's based on the previous GDDR specification).
One of the reasons there is a false belief that GDDR is ahead of DDR is that there have been multiple iterations of the GDDR standard that were based on DDR3. This was also the case with GDDR2, being that its specification has design elements from both DDR and DDR2.
However, it is important to note that this GDDR2 memory used on graphics cards is not DDR2 per se, but rather an early midpoint between DDR and DDR2 technologies. Using "DDR2" to refer to GDDR2 is a colloquial misnomer.
Source: DDR2 SDRAM
Likewise, GDDR4 and GDDR5 both took design elements from DDR3. GDDR5 obviously is an improved GDDR design, when compared to GDDR4.
Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory, which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR5 also uses 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4 and DDR3 SDRAM.
Source: GDDR5 SDRAM
As I understand it, they're both just different types of SDRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon.
The two standards are actually vastly different. The difference in the number of bits that can be transferred over a data line is one of those differences. The GDDR specification is not compatible with Intel and AMD x86 processors. The GDDR specification is able to transfer more bits, due to it being connected to an entirely different connection, mainly PCI-e (within the specification of the various revisions of this standard).
The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops.
This is due to the fact that GDDR4 is based off the DDR3 specification, not the DDR2 specification. The DDR3 standard wasn't ratified until 2005. We didn't see products until 2007 due to entirely different market needs. GDDR4 was announced in 2005 and didn't see products until 2007. So you can see that while they have different names, the actual products were released together.
- GDDR4 SDRAM
- DDR3 SDRAM
Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
The current GDDR standard(s) are actually GDDR5X and GDDR6. HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is a Hynix and Samsung DDR manufacturing process.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both?
The two standards are not compatible with one another.
What makes them different?
What makes them different is their manufacturing process and their specifications. While GDDR is based off the DDR specification, GDDR is not actually ahead of DDR, although there huge performance gaps between the two standards at this point due to the available bandwidth that GDDR has access to.
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
up vote
46
down vote
But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
The GDDR specification, while based on the DDR standard, has its own hardware specification. The DDR specification is technically ahead of the GDDR specification, since GDDR is based on the previous DDR specification (most of the time, except when it's based on the previous GDDR specification).
One of the reasons there is a false belief that GDDR is ahead of DDR is that there have been multiple iterations of the GDDR standard that were based on DDR3. This was also the case with GDDR2, being that its specification has design elements from both DDR and DDR2.
However, it is important to note that this GDDR2 memory used on graphics cards is not DDR2 per se, but rather an early midpoint between DDR and DDR2 technologies. Using "DDR2" to refer to GDDR2 is a colloquial misnomer.
Source: DDR2 SDRAM
Likewise, GDDR4 and GDDR5 both took design elements from DDR3. GDDR5 obviously is an improved GDDR design, when compared to GDDR4.
Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory, which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR5 also uses 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4 and DDR3 SDRAM.
Source: GDDR5 SDRAM
As I understand it, they're both just different types of SDRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon.
The two standards are actually vastly different. The difference in the number of bits that can be transferred over a data line is one of those differences. The GDDR specification is not compatible with Intel and AMD x86 processors. The GDDR specification is able to transfer more bits, due to it being connected to an entirely different connection, mainly PCI-e (within the specification of the various revisions of this standard).
The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops.
This is due to the fact that GDDR4 is based off the DDR3 specification, not the DDR2 specification. The DDR3 standard wasn't ratified until 2005. We didn't see products until 2007 due to entirely different market needs. GDDR4 was announced in 2005 and didn't see products until 2007. So you can see that while they have different names, the actual products were released together.
- GDDR4 SDRAM
- DDR3 SDRAM
Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
The current GDDR standard(s) are actually GDDR5X and GDDR6. HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is a Hynix and Samsung DDR manufacturing process.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both?
The two standards are not compatible with one another.
What makes them different?
What makes them different is their manufacturing process and their specifications. While GDDR is based off the DDR specification, GDDR is not actually ahead of DDR, although there huge performance gaps between the two standards at this point due to the available bandwidth that GDDR has access to.
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
up vote
46
down vote
up vote
46
down vote
But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
The GDDR specification, while based on the DDR standard, has its own hardware specification. The DDR specification is technically ahead of the GDDR specification, since GDDR is based on the previous DDR specification (most of the time, except when it's based on the previous GDDR specification).
One of the reasons there is a false belief that GDDR is ahead of DDR is that there have been multiple iterations of the GDDR standard that were based on DDR3. This was also the case with GDDR2, being that its specification has design elements from both DDR and DDR2.
However, it is important to note that this GDDR2 memory used on graphics cards is not DDR2 per se, but rather an early midpoint between DDR and DDR2 technologies. Using "DDR2" to refer to GDDR2 is a colloquial misnomer.
Source: DDR2 SDRAM
Likewise, GDDR4 and GDDR5 both took design elements from DDR3. GDDR5 obviously is an improved GDDR design, when compared to GDDR4.
Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory, which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR5 also uses 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4 and DDR3 SDRAM.
Source: GDDR5 SDRAM
As I understand it, they're both just different types of SDRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon.
The two standards are actually vastly different. The difference in the number of bits that can be transferred over a data line is one of those differences. The GDDR specification is not compatible with Intel and AMD x86 processors. The GDDR specification is able to transfer more bits, due to it being connected to an entirely different connection, mainly PCI-e (within the specification of the various revisions of this standard).
The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops.
This is due to the fact that GDDR4 is based off the DDR3 specification, not the DDR2 specification. The DDR3 standard wasn't ratified until 2005. We didn't see products until 2007 due to entirely different market needs. GDDR4 was announced in 2005 and didn't see products until 2007. So you can see that while they have different names, the actual products were released together.
- GDDR4 SDRAM
- DDR3 SDRAM
Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
The current GDDR standard(s) are actually GDDR5X and GDDR6. HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is a Hynix and Samsung DDR manufacturing process.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both?
The two standards are not compatible with one another.
What makes them different?
What makes them different is their manufacturing process and their specifications. While GDDR is based off the DDR specification, GDDR is not actually ahead of DDR, although there huge performance gaps between the two standards at this point due to the available bandwidth that GDDR has access to.
But what I don't get is why standard system RAM has always been a generation behind the RAM used on video cards.
The GDDR specification, while based on the DDR standard, has its own hardware specification. The DDR specification is technically ahead of the GDDR specification, since GDDR is based on the previous DDR specification (most of the time, except when it's based on the previous GDDR specification).
One of the reasons there is a false belief that GDDR is ahead of DDR is that there have been multiple iterations of the GDDR standard that were based on DDR3. This was also the case with GDDR2, being that its specification has design elements from both DDR and DDR2.
However, it is important to note that this GDDR2 memory used on graphics cards is not DDR2 per se, but rather an early midpoint between DDR and DDR2 technologies. Using "DDR2" to refer to GDDR2 is a colloquial misnomer.
Source: DDR2 SDRAM
Likewise, GDDR4 and GDDR5 both took design elements from DDR3. GDDR5 obviously is an improved GDDR design, when compared to GDDR4.
Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory, which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM. GDDR5 also uses 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4 and DDR3 SDRAM.
Source: GDDR5 SDRAM
As I understand it, they're both just different types of SDRAM, but it seems to me that the differences could be abstracted away by the memory controller baked into CPU and GPU silicon.
The two standards are actually vastly different. The difference in the number of bits that can be transferred over a data line is one of those differences. The GDDR specification is not compatible with Intel and AMD x86 processors. The GDDR specification is able to transfer more bits, due to it being connected to an entirely different connection, mainly PCI-e (within the specification of the various revisions of this standard).
The current standard for system RAM is DDR4, but video cards were using GDDR4 for years before DDR4 became a thing for desktops.
This is due to the fact that GDDR4 is based off the DDR3 specification, not the DDR2 specification. The DDR3 standard wasn't ratified until 2005. We didn't see products until 2007 due to entirely different market needs. GDDR4 was announced in 2005 and didn't see products until 2007. So you can see that while they have different names, the actual products were released together.
- GDDR4 SDRAM
- DDR3 SDRAM
Video cards are now shipping with HBM RAM (GDDR5?), which is faster than DDR4 system memory.
The current GDDR standard(s) are actually GDDR5X and GDDR6. HBM (High Bandwidth Memory) is a Hynix and Samsung DDR manufacturing process.
Why aren't we using the same kind of RAM for both?
The two standards are not compatible with one another.
What makes them different?
What makes them different is their manufacturing process and their specifications. While GDDR is based off the DDR specification, GDDR is not actually ahead of DDR, although there huge performance gaps between the two standards at this point due to the available bandwidth that GDDR has access to.
edited 17 hours ago
psmears
45238
45238
answered yesterday
Ramhound
18.9k156082
18.9k156082
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
Specifically it is helpful to note that many common IC technologies are formally standardized in opt-in standards, much like software API's. DDR family of specifications is developed by JEDEC, and available for a fee. The specification committees usually identify a need and develop for the requirements of that sub-industry, so while different standards from the same org may copy each other, each one is trying to develop with a certain technology or product in mind and is optimized for that user (hardware developer).
– crasic
23 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
I guess my point is that it is specification marketing. The same folks making the graphics cards talk with the folks making the GPU IC's and memories sometimes at the same company, who also sit on the standards committees and work on developing a common spec optimized for their needs. If the tech is popular IC manufacturers will make more and more products supporting that standard. GDDR is "optimized" or spec'd graphics cards in tandem with the development of GPU's, IC interfaces, and PC Interface standards, as well as the the technology needed to produce them.
– crasic
22 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
@crasic - Imagine that the market dictates what new standards are created. Which is the reason GDDR had multiple iterative generations, and because, IC manufacturing has a major influence. Making ICs is expensive, so the longer a process can be used, the less expensive. (Good Point FYI)
– Ramhound
20 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
I dimly remember the first GDDR memory could also address ranges of memory and mask bits for access, which gave a tremendous speedup for block fill operations.
– Simon Richter
15 hours ago
7
7
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
The key here is that it's [GDDR]4, not G[DDR4]. GDDR is not just DDR with a G prefix because it's in a GPU, it's a different thing.
– anaximander
15 hours ago
|
show 8 more comments
up vote
25
down vote
The underlying tech is more or less the same, GPUs just leverage a much wider memory bus.
GPUs are easier to design this way as a single unit where many memory modules can be directly connected to the processing unit through a custom circuit board. This allows for a very wide memory bus, often exceeding 256-bits. HBM takes this further with with a 1024-bit bus.
CPUs rely on a much more generalized architecture of sockets and motherboard specifications, so more than the standard two 64-bit channels is typically reserved to the high-end and server market.
It should also be mentioned that GPU memory is tuned to trade latency performance for high bandwidth - lots of shoveling and not a lot of seeking. This is not the case with CPU memory where low latency is desired for good random access speeds.
New contributor
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
25
down vote
The underlying tech is more or less the same, GPUs just leverage a much wider memory bus.
GPUs are easier to design this way as a single unit where many memory modules can be directly connected to the processing unit through a custom circuit board. This allows for a very wide memory bus, often exceeding 256-bits. HBM takes this further with with a 1024-bit bus.
CPUs rely on a much more generalized architecture of sockets and motherboard specifications, so more than the standard two 64-bit channels is typically reserved to the high-end and server market.
It should also be mentioned that GPU memory is tuned to trade latency performance for high bandwidth - lots of shoveling and not a lot of seeking. This is not the case with CPU memory where low latency is desired for good random access speeds.
New contributor
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
25
down vote
up vote
25
down vote
The underlying tech is more or less the same, GPUs just leverage a much wider memory bus.
GPUs are easier to design this way as a single unit where many memory modules can be directly connected to the processing unit through a custom circuit board. This allows for a very wide memory bus, often exceeding 256-bits. HBM takes this further with with a 1024-bit bus.
CPUs rely on a much more generalized architecture of sockets and motherboard specifications, so more than the standard two 64-bit channels is typically reserved to the high-end and server market.
It should also be mentioned that GPU memory is tuned to trade latency performance for high bandwidth - lots of shoveling and not a lot of seeking. This is not the case with CPU memory where low latency is desired for good random access speeds.
New contributor
The underlying tech is more or less the same, GPUs just leverage a much wider memory bus.
GPUs are easier to design this way as a single unit where many memory modules can be directly connected to the processing unit through a custom circuit board. This allows for a very wide memory bus, often exceeding 256-bits. HBM takes this further with with a 1024-bit bus.
CPUs rely on a much more generalized architecture of sockets and motherboard specifications, so more than the standard two 64-bit channels is typically reserved to the high-end and server market.
It should also be mentioned that GPU memory is tuned to trade latency performance for high bandwidth - lots of shoveling and not a lot of seeking. This is not the case with CPU memory where low latency is desired for good random access speeds.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Robert
23113
23113
New contributor
New contributor
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
add a comment |
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
4
4
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
Your last paragraph is, I think, the most important point: they're optimized for different things. Graphics cards need high bandwidth but aren't as concerned with latency, whereas CPUs need the best latency possible and bandwidth is a more secondary concern. There's no fundamental reason a CPU couldn't use GDDR or a GPU use regular DDR (indeed, many integrated graphics do), it's just that performance would be worse.
– Nate Strickland
10 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
One special feature of some types of graphics RAM is that they can be accessed by two independent or mostly independent bus systems - which makes using them as either framebuffers (the portion of video ram where the pixels sent to the screen every 1/60th or so second are kept) or texture buffers easier and doable with less access conflicts and overhead....
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
One special feature of some types of graphics RAM is that they can be accessed by two independent or mostly independent bus systems - which makes using them as either framebuffers (the portion of video ram where the pixels sent to the screen every 1/60th or so second are kept) or texture buffers easier and doable with less access conflicts and overhead....
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
One special feature of some types of graphics RAM is that they can be accessed by two independent or mostly independent bus systems - which makes using them as either framebuffers (the portion of video ram where the pixels sent to the screen every 1/60th or so second are kept) or texture buffers easier and doable with less access conflicts and overhead....
One special feature of some types of graphics RAM is that they can be accessed by two independent or mostly independent bus systems - which makes using them as either framebuffers (the portion of video ram where the pixels sent to the screen every 1/60th or so second are kept) or texture buffers easier and doable with less access conflicts and overhead....
answered 10 hours ago
rackandboneman
65036
65036
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I do want to point out that in some cases the system RAM and graphics RAM are exactly the same. Typically found in lower end computers, the BIOS assigns an amount of the system's RAM to the GPU to use as graphics memory. This amount is typically 128 megabytes or less, which is more than enough for a graphical desktop.
– Keltari
10 hours ago