How can I tell the DM that I wasn't having fun and that I fault him for it?











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Yesterday I was playing one shot DnD 5e and didn't expect that I become salty.



The Adventure



The one shot start at level 5 and I made sharpshooter fighter and my character was neutral good.



So my character fought alone a bunch of harpies as the entire party was charmed by them, trying to get the harpies away from the group until they could snap out of it.



I lost most of my HP, nobody offered to heal me and I only had one potion and used it.



The next encounter we were fighting a flying beast, I don't remember its name, and the same thing happened: the beast stunned some of the PCs and was going to attack the quest giver NPC. I defended him and ended up carried by the beast by his talons where I had to roll a dex save in the next turn.



So my party, instead of fighting cautiously or doing anything to help me, just throw spells to the beast while he was carrying me and my character lost all of it HP by their damage.



I spent the rest of the session on my phone because my character was unconscious and the party decided to keep walking instead of taking a short rest or heal me.



Their justification was that they all were neutral to me, even after I showed good will by protecting their characters while been charmed.



The Players



One was RPing as a guy like Guts from Berserk and his character didn't care about anybody besides himself.



The other two were Elf brother and sisters that only cared for each other.



One was chaotic evil so I didn't expect anything from him and there was a lawful good monk who was carrying my unconscious body around and didn't have anything to heal me with.



Finally, my character woke up by the end of the session, only to go to jail because one of the other PCs decided to rob the quest giver.



The GM



I asked the DM if there was anything I can do to wake up or anything but he said that there wasn't a thing I could do.



My Problem



Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty. Seriously I wanted to just leave when my character was still unconscious one hour into the session as I wasn't playing. I was just watching the rest of the group have fun but I didn't want to ruin the mood as the guy who took the game far more seriously.



There isn't any group near me that plays D&D and I decided no game is better than a bad game.



I don't know who to blame, myself for taking this seriously or the DM that should have known that I wasn't having fun and should have done something.



In my opinion, he could have said "Welp! your character died, roll a new one and he joins the group by chance." or he could have made NPC have an extra potion and heal me or do something to make the PCs help me.



I can't fault all the Players: some of them were new to D&D and RPGs in general while the DM is seasoned and always tells stories about scenarios he ran and how great they were.



How can I tell him without hurting his feelings?










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Yesterday I was playing one shot DnD 5e and didn't expect that I become salty.



The Adventure



The one shot start at level 5 and I made sharpshooter fighter and my character was neutral good.



So my character fought alone a bunch of harpies as the entire party was charmed by them, trying to get the harpies away from the group until they could snap out of it.



I lost most of my HP, nobody offered to heal me and I only had one potion and used it.



The next encounter we were fighting a flying beast, I don't remember its name, and the same thing happened: the beast stunned some of the PCs and was going to attack the quest giver NPC. I defended him and ended up carried by the beast by his talons where I had to roll a dex save in the next turn.



So my party, instead of fighting cautiously or doing anything to help me, just throw spells to the beast while he was carrying me and my character lost all of it HP by their damage.



I spent the rest of the session on my phone because my character was unconscious and the party decided to keep walking instead of taking a short rest or heal me.



Their justification was that they all were neutral to me, even after I showed good will by protecting their characters while been charmed.



The Players



One was RPing as a guy like Guts from Berserk and his character didn't care about anybody besides himself.



The other two were Elf brother and sisters that only cared for each other.



One was chaotic evil so I didn't expect anything from him and there was a lawful good monk who was carrying my unconscious body around and didn't have anything to heal me with.



Finally, my character woke up by the end of the session, only to go to jail because one of the other PCs decided to rob the quest giver.



The GM



I asked the DM if there was anything I can do to wake up or anything but he said that there wasn't a thing I could do.



My Problem



Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty. Seriously I wanted to just leave when my character was still unconscious one hour into the session as I wasn't playing. I was just watching the rest of the group have fun but I didn't want to ruin the mood as the guy who took the game far more seriously.



There isn't any group near me that plays D&D and I decided no game is better than a bad game.



I don't know who to blame, myself for taking this seriously or the DM that should have known that I wasn't having fun and should have done something.



In my opinion, he could have said "Welp! your character died, roll a new one and he joins the group by chance." or he could have made NPC have an extra potion and heal me or do something to make the PCs help me.



I can't fault all the Players: some of them were new to D&D and RPGs in general while the DM is seasoned and always tells stories about scenarios he ran and how great they were.



How can I tell him without hurting his feelings?










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Yesterday I was playing one shot DnD 5e and didn't expect that I become salty.



The Adventure



The one shot start at level 5 and I made sharpshooter fighter and my character was neutral good.



So my character fought alone a bunch of harpies as the entire party was charmed by them, trying to get the harpies away from the group until they could snap out of it.



I lost most of my HP, nobody offered to heal me and I only had one potion and used it.



The next encounter we were fighting a flying beast, I don't remember its name, and the same thing happened: the beast stunned some of the PCs and was going to attack the quest giver NPC. I defended him and ended up carried by the beast by his talons where I had to roll a dex save in the next turn.



So my party, instead of fighting cautiously or doing anything to help me, just throw spells to the beast while he was carrying me and my character lost all of it HP by their damage.



I spent the rest of the session on my phone because my character was unconscious and the party decided to keep walking instead of taking a short rest or heal me.



Their justification was that they all were neutral to me, even after I showed good will by protecting their characters while been charmed.



The Players



One was RPing as a guy like Guts from Berserk and his character didn't care about anybody besides himself.



The other two were Elf brother and sisters that only cared for each other.



One was chaotic evil so I didn't expect anything from him and there was a lawful good monk who was carrying my unconscious body around and didn't have anything to heal me with.



Finally, my character woke up by the end of the session, only to go to jail because one of the other PCs decided to rob the quest giver.



The GM



I asked the DM if there was anything I can do to wake up or anything but he said that there wasn't a thing I could do.



My Problem



Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty. Seriously I wanted to just leave when my character was still unconscious one hour into the session as I wasn't playing. I was just watching the rest of the group have fun but I didn't want to ruin the mood as the guy who took the game far more seriously.



There isn't any group near me that plays D&D and I decided no game is better than a bad game.



I don't know who to blame, myself for taking this seriously or the DM that should have known that I wasn't having fun and should have done something.



In my opinion, he could have said "Welp! your character died, roll a new one and he joins the group by chance." or he could have made NPC have an extra potion and heal me or do something to make the PCs help me.



I can't fault all the Players: some of them were new to D&D and RPGs in general while the DM is seasoned and always tells stories about scenarios he ran and how great they were.



How can I tell him without hurting his feelings?










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Yesterday I was playing one shot DnD 5e and didn't expect that I become salty.



The Adventure



The one shot start at level 5 and I made sharpshooter fighter and my character was neutral good.



So my character fought alone a bunch of harpies as the entire party was charmed by them, trying to get the harpies away from the group until they could snap out of it.



I lost most of my HP, nobody offered to heal me and I only had one potion and used it.



The next encounter we were fighting a flying beast, I don't remember its name, and the same thing happened: the beast stunned some of the PCs and was going to attack the quest giver NPC. I defended him and ended up carried by the beast by his talons where I had to roll a dex save in the next turn.



So my party, instead of fighting cautiously or doing anything to help me, just throw spells to the beast while he was carrying me and my character lost all of it HP by their damage.



I spent the rest of the session on my phone because my character was unconscious and the party decided to keep walking instead of taking a short rest or heal me.



Their justification was that they all were neutral to me, even after I showed good will by protecting their characters while been charmed.



The Players



One was RPing as a guy like Guts from Berserk and his character didn't care about anybody besides himself.



The other two were Elf brother and sisters that only cared for each other.



One was chaotic evil so I didn't expect anything from him and there was a lawful good monk who was carrying my unconscious body around and didn't have anything to heal me with.



Finally, my character woke up by the end of the session, only to go to jail because one of the other PCs decided to rob the quest giver.



The GM



I asked the DM if there was anything I can do to wake up or anything but he said that there wasn't a thing I could do.



My Problem



Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty. Seriously I wanted to just leave when my character was still unconscious one hour into the session as I wasn't playing. I was just watching the rest of the group have fun but I didn't want to ruin the mood as the guy who took the game far more seriously.



There isn't any group near me that plays D&D and I decided no game is better than a bad game.



I don't know who to blame, myself for taking this seriously or the DM that should have known that I wasn't having fun and should have done something.



In my opinion, he could have said "Welp! your character died, roll a new one and he joins the group by chance." or he could have made NPC have an extra potion and heal me or do something to make the PCs help me.



I can't fault all the Players: some of them were new to D&D and RPGs in general while the DM is seasoned and always tells stories about scenarios he ran and how great they were.



How can I tell him without hurting his feelings?







dnd-5e gm-techniques problem-gm player-communication






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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – mxyzplk
    2 days ago


















  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – mxyzplk
    2 days ago
















Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– mxyzplk
2 days ago




Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– mxyzplk
2 days ago










11 Answers
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I think I'm going to have to Frame Challenge this question. Based only on how you described the combat and outcome, it doesn't really seem like the DM did anything wrong. It seems much more strongly like the players are to blame, because of a collective case of My Guy Syndrome.



Now, the DM has some culpability: to some degree, it's necessary for the DM to evaluate how the game is progressing, and make adjustments to keep the game fun and interesting for everyone involved. But at the same time, if you joined the game expecting that the player characters would collectively support each other and do whatever is possible/necessary to keep other players alive and fighting, and the other players did not play their characters this way, then there are clearly some expectations that were not met, and you need to talk to your fellow players about what their expectations are, and what your expectations are.



What the other Players did Wrong



At level 5, your fellow players should have lots of options for dealing with downed players. Whether it be in the form of Cure Wounds, or some other healing spell, or just in the form of enough Downtime to recover those lost hit points, your players had options for ensuring that your character didn't have to sit unconscious for the rest of the game. The fact that they chose not to use any of those options tells me that their priorities are pretty skewed.



I'm calling this a case of "My Guy Syndrome", but this situation is especially egregious, since there aren't a lot of reasons, even for a Selfish Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character, to prefer letting a fellow player character go down/stay down. So for the rest of your party to collectively decide that it's not worthwhile to send your character a heal implies, to me, that they've each written their characters in such a way as to incentivize that kind of behavior, OR, they've misinterpreted what their (possibly pregenerated, since they're newer) character traits are supposed to impact in the game itself.



Players shouldn't do this unless it's been agreed to ahead of time. There are absolutely games/sessions where players playing characters who are all individually jerks is appropriate, but it shouldn't be a default starting position assumed by players, especially players who don't have a lot of experience with games like this.



What you need to do



You need to have a sit-down conversation with your fellow players about what kind of game you want to be playing. If the players are committed to playing their "Selfish Neutral"/"wouldn't lift a finger to save anyone" playstyle, then you'll either have to leave the group, or adapt to their style—in this case, probably by playing your character more cautiously so that they aren't the one getting singled out by Harpies. Since they're newer players, you should emphasize that Neutral/Evil characters don't have to define their every decision based on some global context: even Evil Overlords will keep their minions alive if it means having a bigger army for conquering with. Likewise, a Neutral/Evil party will still prioritize keeping their own party alive, given that whatever nefarious schemes they're planning are probably going to work out better with allies than on their own.



Hopefully, you'll be able to persuade them to play their characters more responsibly, and with a more keen eye towards helping the party as a whole, rather than falling into the trap of letting party members die/go unconscious because "it's what my character would do."






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    @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Nov 13 at 15:03












  • I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
    – Zibbobz
    2 days ago










  • @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
    – nitsua60
    21 hours ago


















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It's not the GM's fault, it's the players'



This is a classic case of My Guy Syndrome, where the other players are saying they have to do it that way "because it's what my guy would do." This is also a problem with making evil characters as PCs and having characters that just don't care about other people. Why are they adventuring anyway?



You should start a conversation with your group



Explain why you didn't have any fun. Maybe everyone could make/remake/adjust their characters to actually have an interest in each other. Even a person who is neutral in real life would be unlikely to throw a grenade in a room with a friendly person, just because there was an enemy in there, and then when they're unconscious on the floor, just drag them along instead of tending to their wounds.






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    It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
    – Medo
    Nov 12 at 18:52






  • 6




    <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Nov 12 at 19:53




















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Ok, there are a few problems here. Some can be pointed to the DM, most can be pointed to the players, and some might be pointed to you.



One shots and "my character does not care about yours" don't merge too well



In a long campaign, the PCs creating bonds and trusting each other might as well be part of the plot of the campaign - it usually is not that problematic to start with a party that is together just for some gold in their first quest and grow to actually care about each other. One shots don't provide the time needed to do that, though. If I was the DM or one of the players in this table, I would probably have asked the others to not create such characters in a one shot, exactly because it will either lead to a My Guy Syndrome, exactly as happened, or because it will force the players to do some stuff out of character or have some creative ways to justify helping someone they don't care about even if they don't see any immediate (or even long-term) gain from it.



As a side note, I don't even think 5e is a good system for new players to play one-shots.



This is a minor problem, though, I just felt it should be approached.



Nobody has a crystal ball




Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty.




Not needless at all. You might think it's obvious that you had no fun, but it is not. Some people don't have a problem just sitting back and watching as long as it makes sense. A few weeks ago we had a player waiting for about 1:30h for us to rescue him, while he did literally nothing, and he had no problem with that. He knew it would happen, he knew it made sense in the story and he was completely fine with it. I have been in that position as well, without getting mad about it.



That said, nothing in your question makes me believe you explicitly told the DM - or anyone else - you weren't having fun or was as salty as you describe in the question itself. Actually, parts of it make me believe that you just expected people to read your mind (e.g. "the DM that should have known"). If you didn't, this is the part you take the blame: you should have told them you weren't having fun and simply asked someone to heal you, otherwise you might as well leave because you are not there to waste your time having no fun at all - or asked the DM to let you roll a new character, as you yourself suggested in the question. Just try your best to not be an entitled brat about it (i.e. don't be like "DO THE THINGS AS I WANT OR I QUIT", because if you do it probably they will just say "bye"), just tell them you are not having fun and you would prefer, you know, having fun or being somewhere else.



Okay but now this is past, what do I do?



I assume that you are asking it because you want to improve the situation of your group and keep playing with them.



First, explain them what is the My Guy Syndrome (I would send them the link to our question - What is "my guy syndrome" and how do I handle it? - the best answer nails it perfectly). It's a common problem with beginners in RPGs and usually just reading about it and realizing they have done it is enough for them to improve.



Second, explain them why you felt like the last session was no fun, recognize you should have said so while it was happening and tell them that, if it happens again, you will speak out during the game - and encourage others to do the same if it happens to them. If they are not okay with that for some reason, well, you have another problem that we can't solve yet.



Finally, don't stay salty. It won't make anything better for anyone.






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    You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
    – Medo
    Nov 12 at 20:31






  • 2




    I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
    – Dronz
    Nov 12 at 23:26


















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Provide constructive criticism



You said at the beginning that you want to tell the DM you fault him. Perhaps you weren't being literal, but since that doesn't come across well on a forum like this I'll assume you were. I recommend against telling him you fault him or blame him. It won't help anything and may make things worse. If you think that GM is an irredeemably poor fit for the kinds of things you want, then simply move on to a different group or if you really can't find one, a different hobby.. No RPing is often better than bad RPing.



You can, and should, provide respectful constructive criticism. Point out that just watching was not fun for you. Remember, this is not obvious. Some people do enjoy just watching. For some people, just watching is right for a time even if they plan to transition out. I remember when I was a kid my older cousin would let me join in with his older friends. I nominally had a character, but I was still learning to RP and I mostly watched even when my character was just fine and capable of acting. So, make sure he know you are not someone that wants to just watch and you consider it an issue when you can't do anything for long periods.



He could also consider having the quest giver be a bit more active if the quest giver is travelling with the party. I generally advise against GM PCs, but if a friendly NPC is there anyway, having it produce some healing items in between combats is not going overboard and is a particularly common trope in video game escort missions.



Consider being more proactive yourself



As you describe it, you took many of the right steps, but don't be afraid to go a bit further, especially in a one shot. If your character seems like they are going to be out of commission for a while, especially in a one shot where you aren't worried about the character's long term situation, you can always flatly ask the GM if that character can die and you can introduce a new one.



Consider offering to GM



GMing well is hard. A lot of people won't get it right. If you are actually good at it, or at least think you are better than the current one, consider offering to GM yourself for a while. This means you can't have a GM mess up the game for you, you get to show the others how a good GM should roll by your example, and you give the current GM a break.



On the other hand, if you have never tried it, doing it might give you a different take on the difficulties of getting it right and give you a broader base of experience the next time you play.






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    Don't point fingers, try to create solutions



    Yes, the DM is at (partial) fault. The NPC should have recognized that people blowing you up, and than not treating the wounds they caused as a decidedly evil act. The other players are also at fault for antagonizing you for no good reason. Regardless of a PC's story or alignment, it's not too hard to rationalize a valid excuse to help someone who will make your goals easier.



    That said, "I wasn't able to play, so I had no fun" is not a useful argument. It should be obvious to everybody, and it doesn't get you any closer to a solution. If you have no intention to fix the problem, than there is no point having a conversation about it. The only meaningful conversation you can have is identifying the root of the problem, and finding a solution everyone is happy with.



    So how does this conversation work?



    When having this conversation, it is important to remember that you should focus on indisputable facts, and finding a solution for the future rather than placing blame.




    • "I'm bored to tears when my PC is unconscious an entire session" is
      indisputable. It's how you feel, and feeling is a raw fact.



    • "You could have healed me", is actually disputable because a player
      can always come up with reasons (even if they are bad) to not heal
      you.



      What the other players coulda/shoulda/woulda done is irrelevant to the core reason you are upset (you couldn't play), and so is not actually important for finding a solution. This style of constructive arguing is easier said than done, but it is very strong because it doesn't put anyone on the defensive, and the only viable response is a constructive one.




    It's probably also worth mentioning to them that their actions set a precedent.




    • By doing this to you, they pave the road for the exact same thing to
      happen to them, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to have to sit
      out a session because the rest of the party was too lazy to heal
      them.


    • Key point to make: it is also in their best interest to find a
      solution to the problem they caused.



      However don't try to blame them, try to frame it as "If my situation happened to you; How would you feel? How would you prefer for it to be resolved?". You're all their to work together and have fun. We all lift together.




    If the DM and other players refuse to work with you, then it's better to just leave the group. Being exposed to toxic behavior is not healthy (stress), and is not worth any perceived benefit.






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      First of all, I am sorry that you had this experience. We all experience bad sessions. Let me pull one that I experienced from my hat:



      My Experience



      In a longer running Werewolf group, we had planned an assault on an enemy base. We forged a plan, forgot to establish some way of communication in the group and set on to follow it: I snuck into the base via Umbra and was tasked to set a distraction. Just I ended up trapped in the umbra when returning, about half an hour into the game. The rest of the evening I sat on the sideline as the others moved to try to get in and then - after like 5 hours, we had to pause for the session. Next session we resumed combat, and I asked the GM about once an hour if/when I finally I could do something. The group ended with me not doing anything again. Totally frustrated I agreed to a short, one on one session in between... which ended up with me needing to make a replacement character for the next real session as my character was captured.



      You see I experienced something similar, and even now, years later, I feel still somewhat salty abut appearing for two game sessions and just idling at the sidelines. But I am still in that group. Why? Because the group is still fun. Even as I was at the sidelines, I could enjoy being with my friends and talk OOCly. I could not directly affect the game, but I could still have a little fun, even as I felt somewhat grumpy.



      Advice



      The first step to such problems is healthy communication. I propose the following, based on what I learned from the experience above:





      • Talk to your GM! Tell him "Hey, I didn't like the last session, because..." and then try to explain as quietly and matter of factly your reasons. Tell him what you told us. Don't accuse him of bad GMming though, just state that you don't feel good about the results. His answer might surprise you! Maybe he even admits that it didn't work out as he thought


      But the GM - as I see your story - is not primarily at fault! The other players - as you described - did use you as a solution but did not help you when you needed it. It is to a good degree their behavior's fault. Because this can generate bad blood I propose:





      • Talk to your fellow players! Explain to them why you feel bad about the last session. Try to be cool. Don't accuse them though! Just explain them your feelings and ask them to be more considerate about you next time.


      But even you are at fault to some degree! There are two levels of playing a Pen and Paper game: The In-Character level, and the Meta level. Nothing stops you from interacting with your fellow players at the table when your character is KO. You didn't tell us if you tried to ask the other players for a short rest, but if you haven't, you should have. You did tell us that you just used your phone the rest of the evening. That is not how to handle this!





      • Stay in the game! Even when your character is out of focus and can't act in the current scene. Pulling yourself out of the game excludes you! Excluding yourself is not the way to go in such a situation.


      But then, there are situations that are not bearable. If you really can't bear it anymore and after trying to talk it out...





      • Decide when to cut losses. If you can't enjoy it, it is not your game. Ask the GM if you can take one point of damage, then deliberately fail your saving throw. Stand up, tell them why you leave, and do so. Take your character with you, if they try to stop you to ask you what they can loot from you, don't respond. Don't wait for the end of the session, do it there and then. A player standing up to leave is a pretty hefty signal to the GM "you effed this up big time".






      share|improve this answer



















      • 1




        I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
        – TimothyAWiseman
        2 days ago


















      up vote
      9
      down vote













      You may have answered your own question




      I decided no game is better than a bad game.




      Your first instinct is correct. But there is a way to perhaps move this game from "Bad" to "OK" and later to "Good." The key is to communicate openly and honestly.



      I want to blame the DM



      That would be a mistake on your part. All you can do is explain to the DM how much fun you didn't have, being treated like that, and ask whether you can expect the same in future sessions.




      1. If yes, you go back to point 1: not good use of your time.

      2. If no, then get the DM's advice on how to work with the group a bit
        better. Since this DM is, as you say, "seasoned" they may be able to offer you a few pointers for how to get along with this particular group. At least solicit the DM's advice.


      Should I blame the other players?



      That's up to you. Blame gets the frustration expressed, but then what? Finger pointing rarely gets a warm reception. Do you want to play again, or not?




      • If no, then back to point 1, find better use for your free time.



      • If yes, then you need to have a Session 0 with the other players
        before the next session. That means a meet up, in chat or in person, to clear the air and see how open the other players are to making the at-table experience more fun.



        It might be that you are saddled with a table full if selfish jerks, IRL, but I'll make the assumption that the group hasn't gone through what a lot of small groups go through before they gel as a team: forming, storming, norming, and performing. (This is a basic behavior in small groups, not just in RPGs). Your group has formed, you are in the storming stage (it's not a very effective group yet) so you need to establish the group's norms (things we agree to do as a group, and things we agree not to do as a group) so that you can perform better as a team.




      What do we talk about to make this better?



      For the newer players, point out to them that D&D is designed as a game where a team of characters with different talents usually work together to overcome the monsters and challenges that the DM throws their way. Explain to them that it takes all of the team contributing to make teamwork work to everyone's favor.



      Then ask them directly: Do you want to play as a team, or are you only interested in how well our character does?



      You need to know how they feel about this, as players.



      If any of their answers start with a reference to their alignment as an excuse to hosing your character over, then point them to this article by Rich Burlew. Making Tough Decisions. See also what My Guy Syndrome is and explain how that is screwing up your enjoyment of the game. As a fellow player, a character's alignment isn't an excuse to screw over a fellow player... unless you all agree ahead of time that "dog-eat-dog" is how this table plays and gets its fun. If "dog-eat-dog" is the group consensus, then you need to decide if you want to embrace that approach, or not. Up to you.



      Find out where you stand



      If your fellow players are not interested in having this kind of conversation, about "how we can all get along as players" then we once again return to Point 1: find better use for your free time.



      If, on the other hand, at least a few players, like your monk team mate, are interested in working as a team to defeat monsters and find treasure, then you have the chance to create a core team that works together. Focus on that for the next few sessions and see how it goes.



      Does the team of adventurers perform, or does it remain a bunch of individuals doing their own thing? The result should inform your decision to stay at this table, or not.



      For some related answers on getting a group on the same page, take a look at the answers to this question about the Same Page Tool.






      share|improve this answer






























        up vote
        6
        down vote













        You can say to the DM: "hey, I didn't have fun in your game because my character was unconscious for most of it." That's a legitimate criticism. You can add: "...so I won't be coming back" if you want, but I'd probably leave that unsaid in case I changed my mind about it later.



        It's true that the DM wasn't required to give your character a chance to heal, but a good DM could have noticed the problem and done something to fix it. It's also true that a good set of players would have found a way to heal your character.



        I'll note that I once had a very similar experience to yours: I wandered into a game store, joined a table as like the eighth player, and my character quickly went unconscious and nobody healed him. In that case I concluded that probably that table hadn't really wanted an eighth player, which was why they hadn't made much effort to be welcoming. Maybe your case is similar.



        Sorry to hear this went badly for you.






        share|improve this answer




























          up vote
          6
          down vote













          This answer is predicated on my understanding that:




          • There were 6 players including: You; a friend or person known to you who treated your character acceptably; and 4 players who were all unknown to you, playing for the first time, and treated you poorly.

          • The GM is known to you and a friend of yours.

          • This is a one-shot campaign and the window for in-game consequences to manifest is closed.


          This is almost pessimal because unlike many answers here, I fault both the other players and the GM. What the GM could or should have done is probably beyond the scope of this question, but it seems from your description that your PC rescued the quest giver, and that the quest giver also did nothing effective on your behalf. Therefore, I think what your GM could/should have done is not nothing. I also think this sounds like a pretty awful gaming experience and I would be annoyed, too.



          I am tacitly assuming that you are not so annoyed by this that your existing friendships are already broken past repair and that you'd like to keep them.



          I don't see any road to a solution that doesn't run through the GM and doesn't require his agreement and support; therefore, I don't see a way to entirely shield the GM from a criticism of the game. If you think you are sufficiently close to the GM, a simple, "I don't want to play (or won't play) with those guys again: Here's why...." might be enough. The thing is, you have to be ready to have your bluff called. Or you have to not be bluffing.



          If you don't think that's going to fly, or if you are more forgiving than I am, you can try to lead your GM to the idea of having something like a Session 0, or even just a good serious laying down of expectations. But that is also something that probably needs to spring from a discussion between you and the GM about why it is necessary. Which will be a recitation of everything you found not-fun about his game. This may or may not turn into a discussion of what the GM can or should have done differently as well-- that is a judgment call to be made in the moment.



          But I don't see how you avoid telling the GM that you had little or no fun at his game, which is always hard for a GM to hear.






          share|improve this answer






























            up vote
            5
            down vote













            Don't Blame, Improve Together



            The other answers are all great. Here's the same thing again, with a different focus:



            Do talk to them, the whole group, and stay with the facts. You did not enjoy last time, because you couldn't do anything other than spectate (add your own reasons here). Make sure you do not start off by blaming somebody - that is likely to make most persons defensive instead of trying to improve together. And here's the thing: I believe it is somewhat normal for first time players to not work well as a party. And it is possible to become better players in the social aspect.



            Get clear on what bothers you. Perhaps, you take issue with the fact that the whole party was charmed and only you could fight. Perhaps you rather have a problem with the fact that nobody healed you. Or maybe the only thing bothering you was when you went out of game, but you would have been happy walking around with low HP if you wouldn't have been on timeout for so long, and died instantly instead.



            The DM has one goal: That the players (and the DM) have fun.

            If you phrase it right, you can make this a talk about improving the fun for everybody, instead of a blame game.




            • State the facts. Not "It was awful", but "I did not enjoy X and Y because it made me feel like Z". That's something the group can work with and nobody must feel attacked as a person.

            • Consider that you might have done some things wrong too. Ask the others what they would like to be different from now on.

            • If you enjoyed anything, even if it is small, mention it! Because good things make bad things easier to digest, and also because it tells the DM what you'd like to have more of. A DM has to balance fights with roleplay with puzzles with player-interaction with keeping things realistic with keeping things fun ... and the list goes on. Knowing where the players' priorities lie can be a huge help

            • Have some ideas ready, how this could be improved.


              • You could get some ingame reason for the other PCs to want to help you

              • You could decide as Players, outside of the game, that you want to be a Team. (We have had a similar, though lighter, problem when I played for the first time. When I DM'ed for the first time after that, I made sure to tell the players that their characters must be adventurers, have a reason to adventure, and want to stay with the party and work together with them. No assholes to the party allowed.

              • Your DM could decide that death is instant when you fall unconscious and are not revived within some minutes - if all the players agree

              • ... come up with your own. Or together with the group



            • To prevent future issues, you might want to discuss what you know is important to you. You all. Somebody doesn't like PvP? Then maybe agree to disallow it. Somebody is not comfortable with robbing graves? Than it's important the DM knows this before the story is built around exactly that. If you'd like more examples, search for some session zero examples.






            share|improve this answer




























              up vote
              4
              down vote













              Devil's Advocate



              Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let's flip the script. You admit you got bored and took out your phone at the game table. How do you think the party and DM felt about that? How motivated would that make you appear to want to play the game?



              Instead of questioning what the DM did/didn't do, think about what you could have done.



              Know the rules



              If you're unconsious and stable for 1d4 hours, you wake up with 1 hp. Otherwise, you could have argued that being unconsious was resting, and asked to use hit dice. Instead you took out your phone.



              Grab a PreGen and Keep Going.



              Did you think to ask, "since this character is effectively dead, can I start a new one using the official WotC pregens?"



              You touch on this, but you don't say if you brought it up at the table.



              It is okay to Walk Away



              If you did try to get back into the one-shot, and we're denied, and you feel it is symptomatic of a problem with the DM and/or other players, then not playing with them in the future is an acceptable option. You said this was a one-shot you can leave it there easy enough.



              As far as it being the only game in town, I've had success in interesting my family and friends into playing.






              share|improve this answer




















                protected by doppelgreener Nov 13 at 9:07



                Thank you for your interest in this question.
                Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














                11 Answers
                11






                active

                oldest

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                11 Answers
                11






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

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                active

                oldest

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                up vote
                112
                down vote



                accepted










                I think I'm going to have to Frame Challenge this question. Based only on how you described the combat and outcome, it doesn't really seem like the DM did anything wrong. It seems much more strongly like the players are to blame, because of a collective case of My Guy Syndrome.



                Now, the DM has some culpability: to some degree, it's necessary for the DM to evaluate how the game is progressing, and make adjustments to keep the game fun and interesting for everyone involved. But at the same time, if you joined the game expecting that the player characters would collectively support each other and do whatever is possible/necessary to keep other players alive and fighting, and the other players did not play their characters this way, then there are clearly some expectations that were not met, and you need to talk to your fellow players about what their expectations are, and what your expectations are.



                What the other Players did Wrong



                At level 5, your fellow players should have lots of options for dealing with downed players. Whether it be in the form of Cure Wounds, or some other healing spell, or just in the form of enough Downtime to recover those lost hit points, your players had options for ensuring that your character didn't have to sit unconscious for the rest of the game. The fact that they chose not to use any of those options tells me that their priorities are pretty skewed.



                I'm calling this a case of "My Guy Syndrome", but this situation is especially egregious, since there aren't a lot of reasons, even for a Selfish Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character, to prefer letting a fellow player character go down/stay down. So for the rest of your party to collectively decide that it's not worthwhile to send your character a heal implies, to me, that they've each written their characters in such a way as to incentivize that kind of behavior, OR, they've misinterpreted what their (possibly pregenerated, since they're newer) character traits are supposed to impact in the game itself.



                Players shouldn't do this unless it's been agreed to ahead of time. There are absolutely games/sessions where players playing characters who are all individually jerks is appropriate, but it shouldn't be a default starting position assumed by players, especially players who don't have a lot of experience with games like this.



                What you need to do



                You need to have a sit-down conversation with your fellow players about what kind of game you want to be playing. If the players are committed to playing their "Selfish Neutral"/"wouldn't lift a finger to save anyone" playstyle, then you'll either have to leave the group, or adapt to their style—in this case, probably by playing your character more cautiously so that they aren't the one getting singled out by Harpies. Since they're newer players, you should emphasize that Neutral/Evil characters don't have to define their every decision based on some global context: even Evil Overlords will keep their minions alive if it means having a bigger army for conquering with. Likewise, a Neutral/Evil party will still prioritize keeping their own party alive, given that whatever nefarious schemes they're planning are probably going to work out better with allies than on their own.



                Hopefully, you'll be able to persuade them to play their characters more responsibly, and with a more keen eye towards helping the party as a whole, rather than falling into the trap of letting party members die/go unconscious because "it's what my character would do."






                share|improve this answer

















                • 11




                  @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 13 at 15:03












                • I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                  – Zibbobz
                  2 days ago










                • @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                  – nitsua60
                  21 hours ago















                up vote
                112
                down vote



                accepted










                I think I'm going to have to Frame Challenge this question. Based only on how you described the combat and outcome, it doesn't really seem like the DM did anything wrong. It seems much more strongly like the players are to blame, because of a collective case of My Guy Syndrome.



                Now, the DM has some culpability: to some degree, it's necessary for the DM to evaluate how the game is progressing, and make adjustments to keep the game fun and interesting for everyone involved. But at the same time, if you joined the game expecting that the player characters would collectively support each other and do whatever is possible/necessary to keep other players alive and fighting, and the other players did not play their characters this way, then there are clearly some expectations that were not met, and you need to talk to your fellow players about what their expectations are, and what your expectations are.



                What the other Players did Wrong



                At level 5, your fellow players should have lots of options for dealing with downed players. Whether it be in the form of Cure Wounds, or some other healing spell, or just in the form of enough Downtime to recover those lost hit points, your players had options for ensuring that your character didn't have to sit unconscious for the rest of the game. The fact that they chose not to use any of those options tells me that their priorities are pretty skewed.



                I'm calling this a case of "My Guy Syndrome", but this situation is especially egregious, since there aren't a lot of reasons, even for a Selfish Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character, to prefer letting a fellow player character go down/stay down. So for the rest of your party to collectively decide that it's not worthwhile to send your character a heal implies, to me, that they've each written their characters in such a way as to incentivize that kind of behavior, OR, they've misinterpreted what their (possibly pregenerated, since they're newer) character traits are supposed to impact in the game itself.



                Players shouldn't do this unless it's been agreed to ahead of time. There are absolutely games/sessions where players playing characters who are all individually jerks is appropriate, but it shouldn't be a default starting position assumed by players, especially players who don't have a lot of experience with games like this.



                What you need to do



                You need to have a sit-down conversation with your fellow players about what kind of game you want to be playing. If the players are committed to playing their "Selfish Neutral"/"wouldn't lift a finger to save anyone" playstyle, then you'll either have to leave the group, or adapt to their style—in this case, probably by playing your character more cautiously so that they aren't the one getting singled out by Harpies. Since they're newer players, you should emphasize that Neutral/Evil characters don't have to define their every decision based on some global context: even Evil Overlords will keep their minions alive if it means having a bigger army for conquering with. Likewise, a Neutral/Evil party will still prioritize keeping their own party alive, given that whatever nefarious schemes they're planning are probably going to work out better with allies than on their own.



                Hopefully, you'll be able to persuade them to play their characters more responsibly, and with a more keen eye towards helping the party as a whole, rather than falling into the trap of letting party members die/go unconscious because "it's what my character would do."






                share|improve this answer

















                • 11




                  @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 13 at 15:03












                • I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                  – Zibbobz
                  2 days ago










                • @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                  – nitsua60
                  21 hours ago













                up vote
                112
                down vote



                accepted







                up vote
                112
                down vote



                accepted






                I think I'm going to have to Frame Challenge this question. Based only on how you described the combat and outcome, it doesn't really seem like the DM did anything wrong. It seems much more strongly like the players are to blame, because of a collective case of My Guy Syndrome.



                Now, the DM has some culpability: to some degree, it's necessary for the DM to evaluate how the game is progressing, and make adjustments to keep the game fun and interesting for everyone involved. But at the same time, if you joined the game expecting that the player characters would collectively support each other and do whatever is possible/necessary to keep other players alive and fighting, and the other players did not play their characters this way, then there are clearly some expectations that were not met, and you need to talk to your fellow players about what their expectations are, and what your expectations are.



                What the other Players did Wrong



                At level 5, your fellow players should have lots of options for dealing with downed players. Whether it be in the form of Cure Wounds, or some other healing spell, or just in the form of enough Downtime to recover those lost hit points, your players had options for ensuring that your character didn't have to sit unconscious for the rest of the game. The fact that they chose not to use any of those options tells me that their priorities are pretty skewed.



                I'm calling this a case of "My Guy Syndrome", but this situation is especially egregious, since there aren't a lot of reasons, even for a Selfish Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character, to prefer letting a fellow player character go down/stay down. So for the rest of your party to collectively decide that it's not worthwhile to send your character a heal implies, to me, that they've each written their characters in such a way as to incentivize that kind of behavior, OR, they've misinterpreted what their (possibly pregenerated, since they're newer) character traits are supposed to impact in the game itself.



                Players shouldn't do this unless it's been agreed to ahead of time. There are absolutely games/sessions where players playing characters who are all individually jerks is appropriate, but it shouldn't be a default starting position assumed by players, especially players who don't have a lot of experience with games like this.



                What you need to do



                You need to have a sit-down conversation with your fellow players about what kind of game you want to be playing. If the players are committed to playing their "Selfish Neutral"/"wouldn't lift a finger to save anyone" playstyle, then you'll either have to leave the group, or adapt to their style—in this case, probably by playing your character more cautiously so that they aren't the one getting singled out by Harpies. Since they're newer players, you should emphasize that Neutral/Evil characters don't have to define their every decision based on some global context: even Evil Overlords will keep their minions alive if it means having a bigger army for conquering with. Likewise, a Neutral/Evil party will still prioritize keeping their own party alive, given that whatever nefarious schemes they're planning are probably going to work out better with allies than on their own.



                Hopefully, you'll be able to persuade them to play their characters more responsibly, and with a more keen eye towards helping the party as a whole, rather than falling into the trap of letting party members die/go unconscious because "it's what my character would do."






                share|improve this answer












                I think I'm going to have to Frame Challenge this question. Based only on how you described the combat and outcome, it doesn't really seem like the DM did anything wrong. It seems much more strongly like the players are to blame, because of a collective case of My Guy Syndrome.



                Now, the DM has some culpability: to some degree, it's necessary for the DM to evaluate how the game is progressing, and make adjustments to keep the game fun and interesting for everyone involved. But at the same time, if you joined the game expecting that the player characters would collectively support each other and do whatever is possible/necessary to keep other players alive and fighting, and the other players did not play their characters this way, then there are clearly some expectations that were not met, and you need to talk to your fellow players about what their expectations are, and what your expectations are.



                What the other Players did Wrong



                At level 5, your fellow players should have lots of options for dealing with downed players. Whether it be in the form of Cure Wounds, or some other healing spell, or just in the form of enough Downtime to recover those lost hit points, your players had options for ensuring that your character didn't have to sit unconscious for the rest of the game. The fact that they chose not to use any of those options tells me that their priorities are pretty skewed.



                I'm calling this a case of "My Guy Syndrome", but this situation is especially egregious, since there aren't a lot of reasons, even for a Selfish Neutral/Chaotic Neutral character, to prefer letting a fellow player character go down/stay down. So for the rest of your party to collectively decide that it's not worthwhile to send your character a heal implies, to me, that they've each written their characters in such a way as to incentivize that kind of behavior, OR, they've misinterpreted what their (possibly pregenerated, since they're newer) character traits are supposed to impact in the game itself.



                Players shouldn't do this unless it's been agreed to ahead of time. There are absolutely games/sessions where players playing characters who are all individually jerks is appropriate, but it shouldn't be a default starting position assumed by players, especially players who don't have a lot of experience with games like this.



                What you need to do



                You need to have a sit-down conversation with your fellow players about what kind of game you want to be playing. If the players are committed to playing their "Selfish Neutral"/"wouldn't lift a finger to save anyone" playstyle, then you'll either have to leave the group, or adapt to their style—in this case, probably by playing your character more cautiously so that they aren't the one getting singled out by Harpies. Since they're newer players, you should emphasize that Neutral/Evil characters don't have to define their every decision based on some global context: even Evil Overlords will keep their minions alive if it means having a bigger army for conquering with. Likewise, a Neutral/Evil party will still prioritize keeping their own party alive, given that whatever nefarious schemes they're planning are probably going to work out better with allies than on their own.



                Hopefully, you'll be able to persuade them to play their characters more responsibly, and with a more keen eye towards helping the party as a whole, rather than falling into the trap of letting party members die/go unconscious because "it's what my character would do."







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Nov 12 at 18:08









                Xirema

                12k23575




                12k23575








                • 11




                  @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 13 at 15:03












                • I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                  – Zibbobz
                  2 days ago










                • @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                  – nitsua60
                  21 hours ago














                • 11




                  @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 13 at 15:03












                • I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                  – Zibbobz
                  2 days ago










                • @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                  – nitsua60
                  21 hours ago








                11




                11




                @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                – SevenSidedDie
                Nov 13 at 15:03






                @Zeus This is twice in two days I’ve seen you start an argument in comments under the top answer. Comments aren’t for arguing with an answer. If you think an answer can be corrected, use a comment; if you think an answer is wrong, vote and/or write your own answer. If the former situation takes multiple comments and the author still isn’t convinced, it’s actually the latter situation and it’s time to stop commenting.
                – SevenSidedDie
                Nov 13 at 15:03














                I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                – Zibbobz
                2 days ago




                I'd add to this that, in the event you wish to talk to your players, that you can involve the DM in it as well - he might be able to act as a mediator between you and the players, in order to help make sure you all have a good time at the table.
                – Zibbobz
                2 days ago












                @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                – nitsua60
                21 hours ago




                @industry7 you've left similar comments on a number of answers--I'm deleting them as they don't obviously seem intended to improve the post(s) to which they're attached, but rather to emphasize something you think needs more exposure. Feel free to write your own answer, just not in comments.
                – nitsua60
                21 hours ago












                up vote
                60
                down vote













                It's not the GM's fault, it's the players'



                This is a classic case of My Guy Syndrome, where the other players are saying they have to do it that way "because it's what my guy would do." This is also a problem with making evil characters as PCs and having characters that just don't care about other people. Why are they adventuring anyway?



                You should start a conversation with your group



                Explain why you didn't have any fun. Maybe everyone could make/remake/adjust their characters to actually have an interest in each other. Even a person who is neutral in real life would be unlikely to throw a grenade in a room with a friendly person, just because there was an enemy in there, and then when they're unconscious on the floor, just drag them along instead of tending to their wounds.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 3




                  It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 18:52






                • 6




                  <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 12 at 19:53

















                up vote
                60
                down vote













                It's not the GM's fault, it's the players'



                This is a classic case of My Guy Syndrome, where the other players are saying they have to do it that way "because it's what my guy would do." This is also a problem with making evil characters as PCs and having characters that just don't care about other people. Why are they adventuring anyway?



                You should start a conversation with your group



                Explain why you didn't have any fun. Maybe everyone could make/remake/adjust their characters to actually have an interest in each other. Even a person who is neutral in real life would be unlikely to throw a grenade in a room with a friendly person, just because there was an enemy in there, and then when they're unconscious on the floor, just drag them along instead of tending to their wounds.






                share|improve this answer



















                • 3




                  It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 18:52






                • 6




                  <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 12 at 19:53















                up vote
                60
                down vote










                up vote
                60
                down vote









                It's not the GM's fault, it's the players'



                This is a classic case of My Guy Syndrome, where the other players are saying they have to do it that way "because it's what my guy would do." This is also a problem with making evil characters as PCs and having characters that just don't care about other people. Why are they adventuring anyway?



                You should start a conversation with your group



                Explain why you didn't have any fun. Maybe everyone could make/remake/adjust their characters to actually have an interest in each other. Even a person who is neutral in real life would be unlikely to throw a grenade in a room with a friendly person, just because there was an enemy in there, and then when they're unconscious on the floor, just drag them along instead of tending to their wounds.






                share|improve this answer














                It's not the GM's fault, it's the players'



                This is a classic case of My Guy Syndrome, where the other players are saying they have to do it that way "because it's what my guy would do." This is also a problem with making evil characters as PCs and having characters that just don't care about other people. Why are they adventuring anyway?



                You should start a conversation with your group



                Explain why you didn't have any fun. Maybe everyone could make/remake/adjust their characters to actually have an interest in each other. Even a person who is neutral in real life would be unlikely to throw a grenade in a room with a friendly person, just because there was an enemy in there, and then when they're unconscious on the floor, just drag them along instead of tending to their wounds.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Nov 12 at 18:31









                KorvinStarmast

                70.8k17222390




                70.8k17222390










                answered Nov 12 at 17:59









                Kyle W

                2,6182927




                2,6182927








                • 3




                  It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 18:52






                • 6




                  <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 12 at 19:53
















                • 3




                  It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 18:52






                • 6




                  <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                  – SevenSidedDie
                  Nov 12 at 19:53










                3




                3




                It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                – Medo
                Nov 12 at 18:52




                It was interesting reading about my guy syndrome, I guess I don't need to convince them that there's an in-game reason for their characters to heal mine, I should have said I'm not having fun sitting out of the rest of this session--I might as well go home at this point, I will really appreciate it if somebody heal me so I could join the fun.
                – Medo
                Nov 12 at 18:52




                6




                6




                <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                – SevenSidedDie
                Nov 12 at 19:53






                <comments removed> As usual, if you (“general” you) disagree with the core essence of an answer, rather than participate in a long comment debate about it, just write the answer you do want to upvote. That’s where RPG.se wants to see that energy used instead.
                – SevenSidedDie
                Nov 12 at 19:53












                up vote
                29
                down vote













                Ok, there are a few problems here. Some can be pointed to the DM, most can be pointed to the players, and some might be pointed to you.



                One shots and "my character does not care about yours" don't merge too well



                In a long campaign, the PCs creating bonds and trusting each other might as well be part of the plot of the campaign - it usually is not that problematic to start with a party that is together just for some gold in their first quest and grow to actually care about each other. One shots don't provide the time needed to do that, though. If I was the DM or one of the players in this table, I would probably have asked the others to not create such characters in a one shot, exactly because it will either lead to a My Guy Syndrome, exactly as happened, or because it will force the players to do some stuff out of character or have some creative ways to justify helping someone they don't care about even if they don't see any immediate (or even long-term) gain from it.



                As a side note, I don't even think 5e is a good system for new players to play one-shots.



                This is a minor problem, though, I just felt it should be approached.



                Nobody has a crystal ball




                Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty.




                Not needless at all. You might think it's obvious that you had no fun, but it is not. Some people don't have a problem just sitting back and watching as long as it makes sense. A few weeks ago we had a player waiting for about 1:30h for us to rescue him, while he did literally nothing, and he had no problem with that. He knew it would happen, he knew it made sense in the story and he was completely fine with it. I have been in that position as well, without getting mad about it.



                That said, nothing in your question makes me believe you explicitly told the DM - or anyone else - you weren't having fun or was as salty as you describe in the question itself. Actually, parts of it make me believe that you just expected people to read your mind (e.g. "the DM that should have known"). If you didn't, this is the part you take the blame: you should have told them you weren't having fun and simply asked someone to heal you, otherwise you might as well leave because you are not there to waste your time having no fun at all - or asked the DM to let you roll a new character, as you yourself suggested in the question. Just try your best to not be an entitled brat about it (i.e. don't be like "DO THE THINGS AS I WANT OR I QUIT", because if you do it probably they will just say "bye"), just tell them you are not having fun and you would prefer, you know, having fun or being somewhere else.



                Okay but now this is past, what do I do?



                I assume that you are asking it because you want to improve the situation of your group and keep playing with them.



                First, explain them what is the My Guy Syndrome (I would send them the link to our question - What is "my guy syndrome" and how do I handle it? - the best answer nails it perfectly). It's a common problem with beginners in RPGs and usually just reading about it and realizing they have done it is enough for them to improve.



                Second, explain them why you felt like the last session was no fun, recognize you should have said so while it was happening and tell them that, if it happens again, you will speak out during the game - and encourage others to do the same if it happens to them. If they are not okay with that for some reason, well, you have another problem that we can't solve yet.



                Finally, don't stay salty. It won't make anything better for anyone.






                share|improve this answer

















                • 1




                  You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 20:31






                • 2




                  I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                  – Dronz
                  Nov 12 at 23:26















                up vote
                29
                down vote













                Ok, there are a few problems here. Some can be pointed to the DM, most can be pointed to the players, and some might be pointed to you.



                One shots and "my character does not care about yours" don't merge too well



                In a long campaign, the PCs creating bonds and trusting each other might as well be part of the plot of the campaign - it usually is not that problematic to start with a party that is together just for some gold in their first quest and grow to actually care about each other. One shots don't provide the time needed to do that, though. If I was the DM or one of the players in this table, I would probably have asked the others to not create such characters in a one shot, exactly because it will either lead to a My Guy Syndrome, exactly as happened, or because it will force the players to do some stuff out of character or have some creative ways to justify helping someone they don't care about even if they don't see any immediate (or even long-term) gain from it.



                As a side note, I don't even think 5e is a good system for new players to play one-shots.



                This is a minor problem, though, I just felt it should be approached.



                Nobody has a crystal ball




                Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty.




                Not needless at all. You might think it's obvious that you had no fun, but it is not. Some people don't have a problem just sitting back and watching as long as it makes sense. A few weeks ago we had a player waiting for about 1:30h for us to rescue him, while he did literally nothing, and he had no problem with that. He knew it would happen, he knew it made sense in the story and he was completely fine with it. I have been in that position as well, without getting mad about it.



                That said, nothing in your question makes me believe you explicitly told the DM - or anyone else - you weren't having fun or was as salty as you describe in the question itself. Actually, parts of it make me believe that you just expected people to read your mind (e.g. "the DM that should have known"). If you didn't, this is the part you take the blame: you should have told them you weren't having fun and simply asked someone to heal you, otherwise you might as well leave because you are not there to waste your time having no fun at all - or asked the DM to let you roll a new character, as you yourself suggested in the question. Just try your best to not be an entitled brat about it (i.e. don't be like "DO THE THINGS AS I WANT OR I QUIT", because if you do it probably they will just say "bye"), just tell them you are not having fun and you would prefer, you know, having fun or being somewhere else.



                Okay but now this is past, what do I do?



                I assume that you are asking it because you want to improve the situation of your group and keep playing with them.



                First, explain them what is the My Guy Syndrome (I would send them the link to our question - What is "my guy syndrome" and how do I handle it? - the best answer nails it perfectly). It's a common problem with beginners in RPGs and usually just reading about it and realizing they have done it is enough for them to improve.



                Second, explain them why you felt like the last session was no fun, recognize you should have said so while it was happening and tell them that, if it happens again, you will speak out during the game - and encourage others to do the same if it happens to them. If they are not okay with that for some reason, well, you have another problem that we can't solve yet.



                Finally, don't stay salty. It won't make anything better for anyone.






                share|improve this answer

















                • 1




                  You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 20:31






                • 2




                  I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                  – Dronz
                  Nov 12 at 23:26













                up vote
                29
                down vote










                up vote
                29
                down vote









                Ok, there are a few problems here. Some can be pointed to the DM, most can be pointed to the players, and some might be pointed to you.



                One shots and "my character does not care about yours" don't merge too well



                In a long campaign, the PCs creating bonds and trusting each other might as well be part of the plot of the campaign - it usually is not that problematic to start with a party that is together just for some gold in their first quest and grow to actually care about each other. One shots don't provide the time needed to do that, though. If I was the DM or one of the players in this table, I would probably have asked the others to not create such characters in a one shot, exactly because it will either lead to a My Guy Syndrome, exactly as happened, or because it will force the players to do some stuff out of character or have some creative ways to justify helping someone they don't care about even if they don't see any immediate (or even long-term) gain from it.



                As a side note, I don't even think 5e is a good system for new players to play one-shots.



                This is a minor problem, though, I just felt it should be approached.



                Nobody has a crystal ball




                Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty.




                Not needless at all. You might think it's obvious that you had no fun, but it is not. Some people don't have a problem just sitting back and watching as long as it makes sense. A few weeks ago we had a player waiting for about 1:30h for us to rescue him, while he did literally nothing, and he had no problem with that. He knew it would happen, he knew it made sense in the story and he was completely fine with it. I have been in that position as well, without getting mad about it.



                That said, nothing in your question makes me believe you explicitly told the DM - or anyone else - you weren't having fun or was as salty as you describe in the question itself. Actually, parts of it make me believe that you just expected people to read your mind (e.g. "the DM that should have known"). If you didn't, this is the part you take the blame: you should have told them you weren't having fun and simply asked someone to heal you, otherwise you might as well leave because you are not there to waste your time having no fun at all - or asked the DM to let you roll a new character, as you yourself suggested in the question. Just try your best to not be an entitled brat about it (i.e. don't be like "DO THE THINGS AS I WANT OR I QUIT", because if you do it probably they will just say "bye"), just tell them you are not having fun and you would prefer, you know, having fun or being somewhere else.



                Okay but now this is past, what do I do?



                I assume that you are asking it because you want to improve the situation of your group and keep playing with them.



                First, explain them what is the My Guy Syndrome (I would send them the link to our question - What is "my guy syndrome" and how do I handle it? - the best answer nails it perfectly). It's a common problem with beginners in RPGs and usually just reading about it and realizing they have done it is enough for them to improve.



                Second, explain them why you felt like the last session was no fun, recognize you should have said so while it was happening and tell them that, if it happens again, you will speak out during the game - and encourage others to do the same if it happens to them. If they are not okay with that for some reason, well, you have another problem that we can't solve yet.



                Finally, don't stay salty. It won't make anything better for anyone.






                share|improve this answer












                Ok, there are a few problems here. Some can be pointed to the DM, most can be pointed to the players, and some might be pointed to you.



                One shots and "my character does not care about yours" don't merge too well



                In a long campaign, the PCs creating bonds and trusting each other might as well be part of the plot of the campaign - it usually is not that problematic to start with a party that is together just for some gold in their first quest and grow to actually care about each other. One shots don't provide the time needed to do that, though. If I was the DM or one of the players in this table, I would probably have asked the others to not create such characters in a one shot, exactly because it will either lead to a My Guy Syndrome, exactly as happened, or because it will force the players to do some stuff out of character or have some creative ways to justify helping someone they don't care about even if they don't see any immediate (or even long-term) gain from it.



                As a side note, I don't even think 5e is a good system for new players to play one-shots.



                This is a minor problem, though, I just felt it should be approached.



                Nobody has a crystal ball




                Needless to say, I didn't have fun and I was salty.




                Not needless at all. You might think it's obvious that you had no fun, but it is not. Some people don't have a problem just sitting back and watching as long as it makes sense. A few weeks ago we had a player waiting for about 1:30h for us to rescue him, while he did literally nothing, and he had no problem with that. He knew it would happen, he knew it made sense in the story and he was completely fine with it. I have been in that position as well, without getting mad about it.



                That said, nothing in your question makes me believe you explicitly told the DM - or anyone else - you weren't having fun or was as salty as you describe in the question itself. Actually, parts of it make me believe that you just expected people to read your mind (e.g. "the DM that should have known"). If you didn't, this is the part you take the blame: you should have told them you weren't having fun and simply asked someone to heal you, otherwise you might as well leave because you are not there to waste your time having no fun at all - or asked the DM to let you roll a new character, as you yourself suggested in the question. Just try your best to not be an entitled brat about it (i.e. don't be like "DO THE THINGS AS I WANT OR I QUIT", because if you do it probably they will just say "bye"), just tell them you are not having fun and you would prefer, you know, having fun or being somewhere else.



                Okay but now this is past, what do I do?



                I assume that you are asking it because you want to improve the situation of your group and keep playing with them.



                First, explain them what is the My Guy Syndrome (I would send them the link to our question - What is "my guy syndrome" and how do I handle it? - the best answer nails it perfectly). It's a common problem with beginners in RPGs and usually just reading about it and realizing they have done it is enough for them to improve.



                Second, explain them why you felt like the last session was no fun, recognize you should have said so while it was happening and tell them that, if it happens again, you will speak out during the game - and encourage others to do the same if it happens to them. If they are not okay with that for some reason, well, you have another problem that we can't solve yet.



                Finally, don't stay salty. It won't make anything better for anyone.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Nov 12 at 20:03









                HellSaint

                18.6k575154




                18.6k575154








                • 1




                  You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 20:31






                • 2




                  I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                  – Dronz
                  Nov 12 at 23:26














                • 1




                  You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                  – Medo
                  Nov 12 at 20:31






                • 2




                  I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                  – Dronz
                  Nov 12 at 23:26








                1




                1




                You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                – Medo
                Nov 12 at 20:31




                You are right about not speaking out, I just didn't want to come out as salty or throwing a tantrum, I already spoke and said why you guys won't heal me and their reason because their ingame characters didn't care but then again it is a weak justification, I shouldn't have wasted my day sitting on the sidelines not having any fun, there were better things I could have spent my weekend on.
                – Medo
                Nov 12 at 20:31




                2




                2




                I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                – Dronz
                Nov 12 at 23:26




                I think this, much more than most of the higher-voted answers, is the best answer. However, I worry about recommending that "my guy syndrome" answer, because it also suffers similar issues, assuming there is one sort of fun and failing to draw a line between good roleplaying and asocial jerkishness, which is also the case in this question.
                – Dronz
                Nov 12 at 23:26










                up vote
                18
                down vote













                Provide constructive criticism



                You said at the beginning that you want to tell the DM you fault him. Perhaps you weren't being literal, but since that doesn't come across well on a forum like this I'll assume you were. I recommend against telling him you fault him or blame him. It won't help anything and may make things worse. If you think that GM is an irredeemably poor fit for the kinds of things you want, then simply move on to a different group or if you really can't find one, a different hobby.. No RPing is often better than bad RPing.



                You can, and should, provide respectful constructive criticism. Point out that just watching was not fun for you. Remember, this is not obvious. Some people do enjoy just watching. For some people, just watching is right for a time even if they plan to transition out. I remember when I was a kid my older cousin would let me join in with his older friends. I nominally had a character, but I was still learning to RP and I mostly watched even when my character was just fine and capable of acting. So, make sure he know you are not someone that wants to just watch and you consider it an issue when you can't do anything for long periods.



                He could also consider having the quest giver be a bit more active if the quest giver is travelling with the party. I generally advise against GM PCs, but if a friendly NPC is there anyway, having it produce some healing items in between combats is not going overboard and is a particularly common trope in video game escort missions.



                Consider being more proactive yourself



                As you describe it, you took many of the right steps, but don't be afraid to go a bit further, especially in a one shot. If your character seems like they are going to be out of commission for a while, especially in a one shot where you aren't worried about the character's long term situation, you can always flatly ask the GM if that character can die and you can introduce a new one.



                Consider offering to GM



                GMing well is hard. A lot of people won't get it right. If you are actually good at it, or at least think you are better than the current one, consider offering to GM yourself for a while. This means you can't have a GM mess up the game for you, you get to show the others how a good GM should roll by your example, and you give the current GM a break.



                On the other hand, if you have never tried it, doing it might give you a different take on the difficulties of getting it right and give you a broader base of experience the next time you play.






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  18
                  down vote













                  Provide constructive criticism



                  You said at the beginning that you want to tell the DM you fault him. Perhaps you weren't being literal, but since that doesn't come across well on a forum like this I'll assume you were. I recommend against telling him you fault him or blame him. It won't help anything and may make things worse. If you think that GM is an irredeemably poor fit for the kinds of things you want, then simply move on to a different group or if you really can't find one, a different hobby.. No RPing is often better than bad RPing.



                  You can, and should, provide respectful constructive criticism. Point out that just watching was not fun for you. Remember, this is not obvious. Some people do enjoy just watching. For some people, just watching is right for a time even if they plan to transition out. I remember when I was a kid my older cousin would let me join in with his older friends. I nominally had a character, but I was still learning to RP and I mostly watched even when my character was just fine and capable of acting. So, make sure he know you are not someone that wants to just watch and you consider it an issue when you can't do anything for long periods.



                  He could also consider having the quest giver be a bit more active if the quest giver is travelling with the party. I generally advise against GM PCs, but if a friendly NPC is there anyway, having it produce some healing items in between combats is not going overboard and is a particularly common trope in video game escort missions.



                  Consider being more proactive yourself



                  As you describe it, you took many of the right steps, but don't be afraid to go a bit further, especially in a one shot. If your character seems like they are going to be out of commission for a while, especially in a one shot where you aren't worried about the character's long term situation, you can always flatly ask the GM if that character can die and you can introduce a new one.



                  Consider offering to GM



                  GMing well is hard. A lot of people won't get it right. If you are actually good at it, or at least think you are better than the current one, consider offering to GM yourself for a while. This means you can't have a GM mess up the game for you, you get to show the others how a good GM should roll by your example, and you give the current GM a break.



                  On the other hand, if you have never tried it, doing it might give you a different take on the difficulties of getting it right and give you a broader base of experience the next time you play.






                  share|improve this answer























                    up vote
                    18
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    18
                    down vote









                    Provide constructive criticism



                    You said at the beginning that you want to tell the DM you fault him. Perhaps you weren't being literal, but since that doesn't come across well on a forum like this I'll assume you were. I recommend against telling him you fault him or blame him. It won't help anything and may make things worse. If you think that GM is an irredeemably poor fit for the kinds of things you want, then simply move on to a different group or if you really can't find one, a different hobby.. No RPing is often better than bad RPing.



                    You can, and should, provide respectful constructive criticism. Point out that just watching was not fun for you. Remember, this is not obvious. Some people do enjoy just watching. For some people, just watching is right for a time even if they plan to transition out. I remember when I was a kid my older cousin would let me join in with his older friends. I nominally had a character, but I was still learning to RP and I mostly watched even when my character was just fine and capable of acting. So, make sure he know you are not someone that wants to just watch and you consider it an issue when you can't do anything for long periods.



                    He could also consider having the quest giver be a bit more active if the quest giver is travelling with the party. I generally advise against GM PCs, but if a friendly NPC is there anyway, having it produce some healing items in between combats is not going overboard and is a particularly common trope in video game escort missions.



                    Consider being more proactive yourself



                    As you describe it, you took many of the right steps, but don't be afraid to go a bit further, especially in a one shot. If your character seems like they are going to be out of commission for a while, especially in a one shot where you aren't worried about the character's long term situation, you can always flatly ask the GM if that character can die and you can introduce a new one.



                    Consider offering to GM



                    GMing well is hard. A lot of people won't get it right. If you are actually good at it, or at least think you are better than the current one, consider offering to GM yourself for a while. This means you can't have a GM mess up the game for you, you get to show the others how a good GM should roll by your example, and you give the current GM a break.



                    On the other hand, if you have never tried it, doing it might give you a different take on the difficulties of getting it right and give you a broader base of experience the next time you play.






                    share|improve this answer












                    Provide constructive criticism



                    You said at the beginning that you want to tell the DM you fault him. Perhaps you weren't being literal, but since that doesn't come across well on a forum like this I'll assume you were. I recommend against telling him you fault him or blame him. It won't help anything and may make things worse. If you think that GM is an irredeemably poor fit for the kinds of things you want, then simply move on to a different group or if you really can't find one, a different hobby.. No RPing is often better than bad RPing.



                    You can, and should, provide respectful constructive criticism. Point out that just watching was not fun for you. Remember, this is not obvious. Some people do enjoy just watching. For some people, just watching is right for a time even if they plan to transition out. I remember when I was a kid my older cousin would let me join in with his older friends. I nominally had a character, but I was still learning to RP and I mostly watched even when my character was just fine and capable of acting. So, make sure he know you are not someone that wants to just watch and you consider it an issue when you can't do anything for long periods.



                    He could also consider having the quest giver be a bit more active if the quest giver is travelling with the party. I generally advise against GM PCs, but if a friendly NPC is there anyway, having it produce some healing items in between combats is not going overboard and is a particularly common trope in video game escort missions.



                    Consider being more proactive yourself



                    As you describe it, you took many of the right steps, but don't be afraid to go a bit further, especially in a one shot. If your character seems like they are going to be out of commission for a while, especially in a one shot where you aren't worried about the character's long term situation, you can always flatly ask the GM if that character can die and you can introduce a new one.



                    Consider offering to GM



                    GMing well is hard. A lot of people won't get it right. If you are actually good at it, or at least think you are better than the current one, consider offering to GM yourself for a while. This means you can't have a GM mess up the game for you, you get to show the others how a good GM should roll by your example, and you give the current GM a break.



                    On the other hand, if you have never tried it, doing it might give you a different take on the difficulties of getting it right and give you a broader base of experience the next time you play.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 12 at 17:47









                    TimothyAWiseman

                    16.7k23383




                    16.7k23383






















                        up vote
                        11
                        down vote













                        Don't point fingers, try to create solutions



                        Yes, the DM is at (partial) fault. The NPC should have recognized that people blowing you up, and than not treating the wounds they caused as a decidedly evil act. The other players are also at fault for antagonizing you for no good reason. Regardless of a PC's story or alignment, it's not too hard to rationalize a valid excuse to help someone who will make your goals easier.



                        That said, "I wasn't able to play, so I had no fun" is not a useful argument. It should be obvious to everybody, and it doesn't get you any closer to a solution. If you have no intention to fix the problem, than there is no point having a conversation about it. The only meaningful conversation you can have is identifying the root of the problem, and finding a solution everyone is happy with.



                        So how does this conversation work?



                        When having this conversation, it is important to remember that you should focus on indisputable facts, and finding a solution for the future rather than placing blame.




                        • "I'm bored to tears when my PC is unconscious an entire session" is
                          indisputable. It's how you feel, and feeling is a raw fact.



                        • "You could have healed me", is actually disputable because a player
                          can always come up with reasons (even if they are bad) to not heal
                          you.



                          What the other players coulda/shoulda/woulda done is irrelevant to the core reason you are upset (you couldn't play), and so is not actually important for finding a solution. This style of constructive arguing is easier said than done, but it is very strong because it doesn't put anyone on the defensive, and the only viable response is a constructive one.




                        It's probably also worth mentioning to them that their actions set a precedent.




                        • By doing this to you, they pave the road for the exact same thing to
                          happen to them, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to have to sit
                          out a session because the rest of the party was too lazy to heal
                          them.


                        • Key point to make: it is also in their best interest to find a
                          solution to the problem they caused.



                          However don't try to blame them, try to frame it as "If my situation happened to you; How would you feel? How would you prefer for it to be resolved?". You're all their to work together and have fun. We all lift together.




                        If the DM and other players refuse to work with you, then it's better to just leave the group. Being exposed to toxic behavior is not healthy (stress), and is not worth any perceived benefit.






                        share|improve this answer



























                          up vote
                          11
                          down vote













                          Don't point fingers, try to create solutions



                          Yes, the DM is at (partial) fault. The NPC should have recognized that people blowing you up, and than not treating the wounds they caused as a decidedly evil act. The other players are also at fault for antagonizing you for no good reason. Regardless of a PC's story or alignment, it's not too hard to rationalize a valid excuse to help someone who will make your goals easier.



                          That said, "I wasn't able to play, so I had no fun" is not a useful argument. It should be obvious to everybody, and it doesn't get you any closer to a solution. If you have no intention to fix the problem, than there is no point having a conversation about it. The only meaningful conversation you can have is identifying the root of the problem, and finding a solution everyone is happy with.



                          So how does this conversation work?



                          When having this conversation, it is important to remember that you should focus on indisputable facts, and finding a solution for the future rather than placing blame.




                          • "I'm bored to tears when my PC is unconscious an entire session" is
                            indisputable. It's how you feel, and feeling is a raw fact.



                          • "You could have healed me", is actually disputable because a player
                            can always come up with reasons (even if they are bad) to not heal
                            you.



                            What the other players coulda/shoulda/woulda done is irrelevant to the core reason you are upset (you couldn't play), and so is not actually important for finding a solution. This style of constructive arguing is easier said than done, but it is very strong because it doesn't put anyone on the defensive, and the only viable response is a constructive one.




                          It's probably also worth mentioning to them that their actions set a precedent.




                          • By doing this to you, they pave the road for the exact same thing to
                            happen to them, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to have to sit
                            out a session because the rest of the party was too lazy to heal
                            them.


                          • Key point to make: it is also in their best interest to find a
                            solution to the problem they caused.



                            However don't try to blame them, try to frame it as "If my situation happened to you; How would you feel? How would you prefer for it to be resolved?". You're all their to work together and have fun. We all lift together.




                          If the DM and other players refuse to work with you, then it's better to just leave the group. Being exposed to toxic behavior is not healthy (stress), and is not worth any perceived benefit.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            11
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            11
                            down vote









                            Don't point fingers, try to create solutions



                            Yes, the DM is at (partial) fault. The NPC should have recognized that people blowing you up, and than not treating the wounds they caused as a decidedly evil act. The other players are also at fault for antagonizing you for no good reason. Regardless of a PC's story or alignment, it's not too hard to rationalize a valid excuse to help someone who will make your goals easier.



                            That said, "I wasn't able to play, so I had no fun" is not a useful argument. It should be obvious to everybody, and it doesn't get you any closer to a solution. If you have no intention to fix the problem, than there is no point having a conversation about it. The only meaningful conversation you can have is identifying the root of the problem, and finding a solution everyone is happy with.



                            So how does this conversation work?



                            When having this conversation, it is important to remember that you should focus on indisputable facts, and finding a solution for the future rather than placing blame.




                            • "I'm bored to tears when my PC is unconscious an entire session" is
                              indisputable. It's how you feel, and feeling is a raw fact.



                            • "You could have healed me", is actually disputable because a player
                              can always come up with reasons (even if they are bad) to not heal
                              you.



                              What the other players coulda/shoulda/woulda done is irrelevant to the core reason you are upset (you couldn't play), and so is not actually important for finding a solution. This style of constructive arguing is easier said than done, but it is very strong because it doesn't put anyone on the defensive, and the only viable response is a constructive one.




                            It's probably also worth mentioning to them that their actions set a precedent.




                            • By doing this to you, they pave the road for the exact same thing to
                              happen to them, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to have to sit
                              out a session because the rest of the party was too lazy to heal
                              them.


                            • Key point to make: it is also in their best interest to find a
                              solution to the problem they caused.



                              However don't try to blame them, try to frame it as "If my situation happened to you; How would you feel? How would you prefer for it to be resolved?". You're all their to work together and have fun. We all lift together.




                            If the DM and other players refuse to work with you, then it's better to just leave the group. Being exposed to toxic behavior is not healthy (stress), and is not worth any perceived benefit.






                            share|improve this answer














                            Don't point fingers, try to create solutions



                            Yes, the DM is at (partial) fault. The NPC should have recognized that people blowing you up, and than not treating the wounds they caused as a decidedly evil act. The other players are also at fault for antagonizing you for no good reason. Regardless of a PC's story or alignment, it's not too hard to rationalize a valid excuse to help someone who will make your goals easier.



                            That said, "I wasn't able to play, so I had no fun" is not a useful argument. It should be obvious to everybody, and it doesn't get you any closer to a solution. If you have no intention to fix the problem, than there is no point having a conversation about it. The only meaningful conversation you can have is identifying the root of the problem, and finding a solution everyone is happy with.



                            So how does this conversation work?



                            When having this conversation, it is important to remember that you should focus on indisputable facts, and finding a solution for the future rather than placing blame.




                            • "I'm bored to tears when my PC is unconscious an entire session" is
                              indisputable. It's how you feel, and feeling is a raw fact.



                            • "You could have healed me", is actually disputable because a player
                              can always come up with reasons (even if they are bad) to not heal
                              you.



                              What the other players coulda/shoulda/woulda done is irrelevant to the core reason you are upset (you couldn't play), and so is not actually important for finding a solution. This style of constructive arguing is easier said than done, but it is very strong because it doesn't put anyone on the defensive, and the only viable response is a constructive one.




                            It's probably also worth mentioning to them that their actions set a precedent.




                            • By doing this to you, they pave the road for the exact same thing to
                              happen to them, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to have to sit
                              out a session because the rest of the party was too lazy to heal
                              them.


                            • Key point to make: it is also in their best interest to find a
                              solution to the problem they caused.



                              However don't try to blame them, try to frame it as "If my situation happened to you; How would you feel? How would you prefer for it to be resolved?". You're all their to work together and have fun. We all lift together.




                            If the DM and other players refuse to work with you, then it's better to just leave the group. Being exposed to toxic behavior is not healthy (stress), and is not worth any perceived benefit.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited Nov 12 at 20:01









                            SevenSidedDie

                            202k26641921




                            202k26641921










                            answered Nov 12 at 19:14









                            Tezra

                            866313




                            866313






















                                up vote
                                11
                                down vote













                                First of all, I am sorry that you had this experience. We all experience bad sessions. Let me pull one that I experienced from my hat:



                                My Experience



                                In a longer running Werewolf group, we had planned an assault on an enemy base. We forged a plan, forgot to establish some way of communication in the group and set on to follow it: I snuck into the base via Umbra and was tasked to set a distraction. Just I ended up trapped in the umbra when returning, about half an hour into the game. The rest of the evening I sat on the sideline as the others moved to try to get in and then - after like 5 hours, we had to pause for the session. Next session we resumed combat, and I asked the GM about once an hour if/when I finally I could do something. The group ended with me not doing anything again. Totally frustrated I agreed to a short, one on one session in between... which ended up with me needing to make a replacement character for the next real session as my character was captured.



                                You see I experienced something similar, and even now, years later, I feel still somewhat salty abut appearing for two game sessions and just idling at the sidelines. But I am still in that group. Why? Because the group is still fun. Even as I was at the sidelines, I could enjoy being with my friends and talk OOCly. I could not directly affect the game, but I could still have a little fun, even as I felt somewhat grumpy.



                                Advice



                                The first step to such problems is healthy communication. I propose the following, based on what I learned from the experience above:





                                • Talk to your GM! Tell him "Hey, I didn't like the last session, because..." and then try to explain as quietly and matter of factly your reasons. Tell him what you told us. Don't accuse him of bad GMming though, just state that you don't feel good about the results. His answer might surprise you! Maybe he even admits that it didn't work out as he thought


                                But the GM - as I see your story - is not primarily at fault! The other players - as you described - did use you as a solution but did not help you when you needed it. It is to a good degree their behavior's fault. Because this can generate bad blood I propose:





                                • Talk to your fellow players! Explain to them why you feel bad about the last session. Try to be cool. Don't accuse them though! Just explain them your feelings and ask them to be more considerate about you next time.


                                But even you are at fault to some degree! There are two levels of playing a Pen and Paper game: The In-Character level, and the Meta level. Nothing stops you from interacting with your fellow players at the table when your character is KO. You didn't tell us if you tried to ask the other players for a short rest, but if you haven't, you should have. You did tell us that you just used your phone the rest of the evening. That is not how to handle this!





                                • Stay in the game! Even when your character is out of focus and can't act in the current scene. Pulling yourself out of the game excludes you! Excluding yourself is not the way to go in such a situation.


                                But then, there are situations that are not bearable. If you really can't bear it anymore and after trying to talk it out...





                                • Decide when to cut losses. If you can't enjoy it, it is not your game. Ask the GM if you can take one point of damage, then deliberately fail your saving throw. Stand up, tell them why you leave, and do so. Take your character with you, if they try to stop you to ask you what they can loot from you, don't respond. Don't wait for the end of the session, do it there and then. A player standing up to leave is a pretty hefty signal to the GM "you effed this up big time".






                                share|improve this answer



















                                • 1




                                  I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                  – TimothyAWiseman
                                  2 days ago















                                up vote
                                11
                                down vote













                                First of all, I am sorry that you had this experience. We all experience bad sessions. Let me pull one that I experienced from my hat:



                                My Experience



                                In a longer running Werewolf group, we had planned an assault on an enemy base. We forged a plan, forgot to establish some way of communication in the group and set on to follow it: I snuck into the base via Umbra and was tasked to set a distraction. Just I ended up trapped in the umbra when returning, about half an hour into the game. The rest of the evening I sat on the sideline as the others moved to try to get in and then - after like 5 hours, we had to pause for the session. Next session we resumed combat, and I asked the GM about once an hour if/when I finally I could do something. The group ended with me not doing anything again. Totally frustrated I agreed to a short, one on one session in between... which ended up with me needing to make a replacement character for the next real session as my character was captured.



                                You see I experienced something similar, and even now, years later, I feel still somewhat salty abut appearing for two game sessions and just idling at the sidelines. But I am still in that group. Why? Because the group is still fun. Even as I was at the sidelines, I could enjoy being with my friends and talk OOCly. I could not directly affect the game, but I could still have a little fun, even as I felt somewhat grumpy.



                                Advice



                                The first step to such problems is healthy communication. I propose the following, based on what I learned from the experience above:





                                • Talk to your GM! Tell him "Hey, I didn't like the last session, because..." and then try to explain as quietly and matter of factly your reasons. Tell him what you told us. Don't accuse him of bad GMming though, just state that you don't feel good about the results. His answer might surprise you! Maybe he even admits that it didn't work out as he thought


                                But the GM - as I see your story - is not primarily at fault! The other players - as you described - did use you as a solution but did not help you when you needed it. It is to a good degree their behavior's fault. Because this can generate bad blood I propose:





                                • Talk to your fellow players! Explain to them why you feel bad about the last session. Try to be cool. Don't accuse them though! Just explain them your feelings and ask them to be more considerate about you next time.


                                But even you are at fault to some degree! There are two levels of playing a Pen and Paper game: The In-Character level, and the Meta level. Nothing stops you from interacting with your fellow players at the table when your character is KO. You didn't tell us if you tried to ask the other players for a short rest, but if you haven't, you should have. You did tell us that you just used your phone the rest of the evening. That is not how to handle this!





                                • Stay in the game! Even when your character is out of focus and can't act in the current scene. Pulling yourself out of the game excludes you! Excluding yourself is not the way to go in such a situation.


                                But then, there are situations that are not bearable. If you really can't bear it anymore and after trying to talk it out...





                                • Decide when to cut losses. If you can't enjoy it, it is not your game. Ask the GM if you can take one point of damage, then deliberately fail your saving throw. Stand up, tell them why you leave, and do so. Take your character with you, if they try to stop you to ask you what they can loot from you, don't respond. Don't wait for the end of the session, do it there and then. A player standing up to leave is a pretty hefty signal to the GM "you effed this up big time".






                                share|improve this answer



















                                • 1




                                  I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                  – TimothyAWiseman
                                  2 days ago













                                up vote
                                11
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                11
                                down vote









                                First of all, I am sorry that you had this experience. We all experience bad sessions. Let me pull one that I experienced from my hat:



                                My Experience



                                In a longer running Werewolf group, we had planned an assault on an enemy base. We forged a plan, forgot to establish some way of communication in the group and set on to follow it: I snuck into the base via Umbra and was tasked to set a distraction. Just I ended up trapped in the umbra when returning, about half an hour into the game. The rest of the evening I sat on the sideline as the others moved to try to get in and then - after like 5 hours, we had to pause for the session. Next session we resumed combat, and I asked the GM about once an hour if/when I finally I could do something. The group ended with me not doing anything again. Totally frustrated I agreed to a short, one on one session in between... which ended up with me needing to make a replacement character for the next real session as my character was captured.



                                You see I experienced something similar, and even now, years later, I feel still somewhat salty abut appearing for two game sessions and just idling at the sidelines. But I am still in that group. Why? Because the group is still fun. Even as I was at the sidelines, I could enjoy being with my friends and talk OOCly. I could not directly affect the game, but I could still have a little fun, even as I felt somewhat grumpy.



                                Advice



                                The first step to such problems is healthy communication. I propose the following, based on what I learned from the experience above:





                                • Talk to your GM! Tell him "Hey, I didn't like the last session, because..." and then try to explain as quietly and matter of factly your reasons. Tell him what you told us. Don't accuse him of bad GMming though, just state that you don't feel good about the results. His answer might surprise you! Maybe he even admits that it didn't work out as he thought


                                But the GM - as I see your story - is not primarily at fault! The other players - as you described - did use you as a solution but did not help you when you needed it. It is to a good degree their behavior's fault. Because this can generate bad blood I propose:





                                • Talk to your fellow players! Explain to them why you feel bad about the last session. Try to be cool. Don't accuse them though! Just explain them your feelings and ask them to be more considerate about you next time.


                                But even you are at fault to some degree! There are two levels of playing a Pen and Paper game: The In-Character level, and the Meta level. Nothing stops you from interacting with your fellow players at the table when your character is KO. You didn't tell us if you tried to ask the other players for a short rest, but if you haven't, you should have. You did tell us that you just used your phone the rest of the evening. That is not how to handle this!





                                • Stay in the game! Even when your character is out of focus and can't act in the current scene. Pulling yourself out of the game excludes you! Excluding yourself is not the way to go in such a situation.


                                But then, there are situations that are not bearable. If you really can't bear it anymore and after trying to talk it out...





                                • Decide when to cut losses. If you can't enjoy it, it is not your game. Ask the GM if you can take one point of damage, then deliberately fail your saving throw. Stand up, tell them why you leave, and do so. Take your character with you, if they try to stop you to ask you what they can loot from you, don't respond. Don't wait for the end of the session, do it there and then. A player standing up to leave is a pretty hefty signal to the GM "you effed this up big time".






                                share|improve this answer














                                First of all, I am sorry that you had this experience. We all experience bad sessions. Let me pull one that I experienced from my hat:



                                My Experience



                                In a longer running Werewolf group, we had planned an assault on an enemy base. We forged a plan, forgot to establish some way of communication in the group and set on to follow it: I snuck into the base via Umbra and was tasked to set a distraction. Just I ended up trapped in the umbra when returning, about half an hour into the game. The rest of the evening I sat on the sideline as the others moved to try to get in and then - after like 5 hours, we had to pause for the session. Next session we resumed combat, and I asked the GM about once an hour if/when I finally I could do something. The group ended with me not doing anything again. Totally frustrated I agreed to a short, one on one session in between... which ended up with me needing to make a replacement character for the next real session as my character was captured.



                                You see I experienced something similar, and even now, years later, I feel still somewhat salty abut appearing for two game sessions and just idling at the sidelines. But I am still in that group. Why? Because the group is still fun. Even as I was at the sidelines, I could enjoy being with my friends and talk OOCly. I could not directly affect the game, but I could still have a little fun, even as I felt somewhat grumpy.



                                Advice



                                The first step to such problems is healthy communication. I propose the following, based on what I learned from the experience above:





                                • Talk to your GM! Tell him "Hey, I didn't like the last session, because..." and then try to explain as quietly and matter of factly your reasons. Tell him what you told us. Don't accuse him of bad GMming though, just state that you don't feel good about the results. His answer might surprise you! Maybe he even admits that it didn't work out as he thought


                                But the GM - as I see your story - is not primarily at fault! The other players - as you described - did use you as a solution but did not help you when you needed it. It is to a good degree their behavior's fault. Because this can generate bad blood I propose:





                                • Talk to your fellow players! Explain to them why you feel bad about the last session. Try to be cool. Don't accuse them though! Just explain them your feelings and ask them to be more considerate about you next time.


                                But even you are at fault to some degree! There are two levels of playing a Pen and Paper game: The In-Character level, and the Meta level. Nothing stops you from interacting with your fellow players at the table when your character is KO. You didn't tell us if you tried to ask the other players for a short rest, but if you haven't, you should have. You did tell us that you just used your phone the rest of the evening. That is not how to handle this!





                                • Stay in the game! Even when your character is out of focus and can't act in the current scene. Pulling yourself out of the game excludes you! Excluding yourself is not the way to go in such a situation.


                                But then, there are situations that are not bearable. If you really can't bear it anymore and after trying to talk it out...





                                • Decide when to cut losses. If you can't enjoy it, it is not your game. Ask the GM if you can take one point of damage, then deliberately fail your saving throw. Stand up, tell them why you leave, and do so. Take your character with you, if they try to stop you to ask you what they can loot from you, don't respond. Don't wait for the end of the session, do it there and then. A player standing up to leave is a pretty hefty signal to the GM "you effed this up big time".







                                share|improve this answer














                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer








                                edited 5 hours ago

























                                answered Nov 12 at 18:13









                                Trish

                                9,7223075




                                9,7223075








                                • 1




                                  I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                  – TimothyAWiseman
                                  2 days ago














                                • 1




                                  I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                  – TimothyAWiseman
                                  2 days ago








                                1




                                1




                                I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                – TimothyAWiseman
                                2 days ago




                                I voted this up, but I have to caveat that I respectfully disagree with the last bullet point or at least feel it requires more explanation. The payoff for roleplaying is generally fun. If you aren't having enough fun to justify the time that is being invested and the occasional aggravation, then something needs to change. Sometimes that really means leaving that particular game.
                                – TimothyAWiseman
                                2 days ago










                                up vote
                                9
                                down vote













                                You may have answered your own question




                                I decided no game is better than a bad game.




                                Your first instinct is correct. But there is a way to perhaps move this game from "Bad" to "OK" and later to "Good." The key is to communicate openly and honestly.



                                I want to blame the DM



                                That would be a mistake on your part. All you can do is explain to the DM how much fun you didn't have, being treated like that, and ask whether you can expect the same in future sessions.




                                1. If yes, you go back to point 1: not good use of your time.

                                2. If no, then get the DM's advice on how to work with the group a bit
                                  better. Since this DM is, as you say, "seasoned" they may be able to offer you a few pointers for how to get along with this particular group. At least solicit the DM's advice.


                                Should I blame the other players?



                                That's up to you. Blame gets the frustration expressed, but then what? Finger pointing rarely gets a warm reception. Do you want to play again, or not?




                                • If no, then back to point 1, find better use for your free time.



                                • If yes, then you need to have a Session 0 with the other players
                                  before the next session. That means a meet up, in chat or in person, to clear the air and see how open the other players are to making the at-table experience more fun.



                                  It might be that you are saddled with a table full if selfish jerks, IRL, but I'll make the assumption that the group hasn't gone through what a lot of small groups go through before they gel as a team: forming, storming, norming, and performing. (This is a basic behavior in small groups, not just in RPGs). Your group has formed, you are in the storming stage (it's not a very effective group yet) so you need to establish the group's norms (things we agree to do as a group, and things we agree not to do as a group) so that you can perform better as a team.




                                What do we talk about to make this better?



                                For the newer players, point out to them that D&D is designed as a game where a team of characters with different talents usually work together to overcome the monsters and challenges that the DM throws their way. Explain to them that it takes all of the team contributing to make teamwork work to everyone's favor.



                                Then ask them directly: Do you want to play as a team, or are you only interested in how well our character does?



                                You need to know how they feel about this, as players.



                                If any of their answers start with a reference to their alignment as an excuse to hosing your character over, then point them to this article by Rich Burlew. Making Tough Decisions. See also what My Guy Syndrome is and explain how that is screwing up your enjoyment of the game. As a fellow player, a character's alignment isn't an excuse to screw over a fellow player... unless you all agree ahead of time that "dog-eat-dog" is how this table plays and gets its fun. If "dog-eat-dog" is the group consensus, then you need to decide if you want to embrace that approach, or not. Up to you.



                                Find out where you stand



                                If your fellow players are not interested in having this kind of conversation, about "how we can all get along as players" then we once again return to Point 1: find better use for your free time.



                                If, on the other hand, at least a few players, like your monk team mate, are interested in working as a team to defeat monsters and find treasure, then you have the chance to create a core team that works together. Focus on that for the next few sessions and see how it goes.



                                Does the team of adventurers perform, or does it remain a bunch of individuals doing their own thing? The result should inform your decision to stay at this table, or not.



                                For some related answers on getting a group on the same page, take a look at the answers to this question about the Same Page Tool.






                                share|improve this answer



























                                  up vote
                                  9
                                  down vote













                                  You may have answered your own question




                                  I decided no game is better than a bad game.




                                  Your first instinct is correct. But there is a way to perhaps move this game from "Bad" to "OK" and later to "Good." The key is to communicate openly and honestly.



                                  I want to blame the DM



                                  That would be a mistake on your part. All you can do is explain to the DM how much fun you didn't have, being treated like that, and ask whether you can expect the same in future sessions.




                                  1. If yes, you go back to point 1: not good use of your time.

                                  2. If no, then get the DM's advice on how to work with the group a bit
                                    better. Since this DM is, as you say, "seasoned" they may be able to offer you a few pointers for how to get along with this particular group. At least solicit the DM's advice.


                                  Should I blame the other players?



                                  That's up to you. Blame gets the frustration expressed, but then what? Finger pointing rarely gets a warm reception. Do you want to play again, or not?




                                  • If no, then back to point 1, find better use for your free time.



                                  • If yes, then you need to have a Session 0 with the other players
                                    before the next session. That means a meet up, in chat or in person, to clear the air and see how open the other players are to making the at-table experience more fun.



                                    It might be that you are saddled with a table full if selfish jerks, IRL, but I'll make the assumption that the group hasn't gone through what a lot of small groups go through before they gel as a team: forming, storming, norming, and performing. (This is a basic behavior in small groups, not just in RPGs). Your group has formed, you are in the storming stage (it's not a very effective group yet) so you need to establish the group's norms (things we agree to do as a group, and things we agree not to do as a group) so that you can perform better as a team.




                                  What do we talk about to make this better?



                                  For the newer players, point out to them that D&D is designed as a game where a team of characters with different talents usually work together to overcome the monsters and challenges that the DM throws their way. Explain to them that it takes all of the team contributing to make teamwork work to everyone's favor.



                                  Then ask them directly: Do you want to play as a team, or are you only interested in how well our character does?



                                  You need to know how they feel about this, as players.



                                  If any of their answers start with a reference to their alignment as an excuse to hosing your character over, then point them to this article by Rich Burlew. Making Tough Decisions. See also what My Guy Syndrome is and explain how that is screwing up your enjoyment of the game. As a fellow player, a character's alignment isn't an excuse to screw over a fellow player... unless you all agree ahead of time that "dog-eat-dog" is how this table plays and gets its fun. If "dog-eat-dog" is the group consensus, then you need to decide if you want to embrace that approach, or not. Up to you.



                                  Find out where you stand



                                  If your fellow players are not interested in having this kind of conversation, about "how we can all get along as players" then we once again return to Point 1: find better use for your free time.



                                  If, on the other hand, at least a few players, like your monk team mate, are interested in working as a team to defeat monsters and find treasure, then you have the chance to create a core team that works together. Focus on that for the next few sessions and see how it goes.



                                  Does the team of adventurers perform, or does it remain a bunch of individuals doing their own thing? The result should inform your decision to stay at this table, or not.



                                  For some related answers on getting a group on the same page, take a look at the answers to this question about the Same Page Tool.






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    9
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    9
                                    down vote









                                    You may have answered your own question




                                    I decided no game is better than a bad game.




                                    Your first instinct is correct. But there is a way to perhaps move this game from "Bad" to "OK" and later to "Good." The key is to communicate openly and honestly.



                                    I want to blame the DM



                                    That would be a mistake on your part. All you can do is explain to the DM how much fun you didn't have, being treated like that, and ask whether you can expect the same in future sessions.




                                    1. If yes, you go back to point 1: not good use of your time.

                                    2. If no, then get the DM's advice on how to work with the group a bit
                                      better. Since this DM is, as you say, "seasoned" they may be able to offer you a few pointers for how to get along with this particular group. At least solicit the DM's advice.


                                    Should I blame the other players?



                                    That's up to you. Blame gets the frustration expressed, but then what? Finger pointing rarely gets a warm reception. Do you want to play again, or not?




                                    • If no, then back to point 1, find better use for your free time.



                                    • If yes, then you need to have a Session 0 with the other players
                                      before the next session. That means a meet up, in chat or in person, to clear the air and see how open the other players are to making the at-table experience more fun.



                                      It might be that you are saddled with a table full if selfish jerks, IRL, but I'll make the assumption that the group hasn't gone through what a lot of small groups go through before they gel as a team: forming, storming, norming, and performing. (This is a basic behavior in small groups, not just in RPGs). Your group has formed, you are in the storming stage (it's not a very effective group yet) so you need to establish the group's norms (things we agree to do as a group, and things we agree not to do as a group) so that you can perform better as a team.




                                    What do we talk about to make this better?



                                    For the newer players, point out to them that D&D is designed as a game where a team of characters with different talents usually work together to overcome the monsters and challenges that the DM throws their way. Explain to them that it takes all of the team contributing to make teamwork work to everyone's favor.



                                    Then ask them directly: Do you want to play as a team, or are you only interested in how well our character does?



                                    You need to know how they feel about this, as players.



                                    If any of their answers start with a reference to their alignment as an excuse to hosing your character over, then point them to this article by Rich Burlew. Making Tough Decisions. See also what My Guy Syndrome is and explain how that is screwing up your enjoyment of the game. As a fellow player, a character's alignment isn't an excuse to screw over a fellow player... unless you all agree ahead of time that "dog-eat-dog" is how this table plays and gets its fun. If "dog-eat-dog" is the group consensus, then you need to decide if you want to embrace that approach, or not. Up to you.



                                    Find out where you stand



                                    If your fellow players are not interested in having this kind of conversation, about "how we can all get along as players" then we once again return to Point 1: find better use for your free time.



                                    If, on the other hand, at least a few players, like your monk team mate, are interested in working as a team to defeat monsters and find treasure, then you have the chance to create a core team that works together. Focus on that for the next few sessions and see how it goes.



                                    Does the team of adventurers perform, or does it remain a bunch of individuals doing their own thing? The result should inform your decision to stay at this table, or not.



                                    For some related answers on getting a group on the same page, take a look at the answers to this question about the Same Page Tool.






                                    share|improve this answer














                                    You may have answered your own question




                                    I decided no game is better than a bad game.




                                    Your first instinct is correct. But there is a way to perhaps move this game from "Bad" to "OK" and later to "Good." The key is to communicate openly and honestly.



                                    I want to blame the DM



                                    That would be a mistake on your part. All you can do is explain to the DM how much fun you didn't have, being treated like that, and ask whether you can expect the same in future sessions.




                                    1. If yes, you go back to point 1: not good use of your time.

                                    2. If no, then get the DM's advice on how to work with the group a bit
                                      better. Since this DM is, as you say, "seasoned" they may be able to offer you a few pointers for how to get along with this particular group. At least solicit the DM's advice.


                                    Should I blame the other players?



                                    That's up to you. Blame gets the frustration expressed, but then what? Finger pointing rarely gets a warm reception. Do you want to play again, or not?




                                    • If no, then back to point 1, find better use for your free time.



                                    • If yes, then you need to have a Session 0 with the other players
                                      before the next session. That means a meet up, in chat or in person, to clear the air and see how open the other players are to making the at-table experience more fun.



                                      It might be that you are saddled with a table full if selfish jerks, IRL, but I'll make the assumption that the group hasn't gone through what a lot of small groups go through before they gel as a team: forming, storming, norming, and performing. (This is a basic behavior in small groups, not just in RPGs). Your group has formed, you are in the storming stage (it's not a very effective group yet) so you need to establish the group's norms (things we agree to do as a group, and things we agree not to do as a group) so that you can perform better as a team.




                                    What do we talk about to make this better?



                                    For the newer players, point out to them that D&D is designed as a game where a team of characters with different talents usually work together to overcome the monsters and challenges that the DM throws their way. Explain to them that it takes all of the team contributing to make teamwork work to everyone's favor.



                                    Then ask them directly: Do you want to play as a team, or are you only interested in how well our character does?



                                    You need to know how they feel about this, as players.



                                    If any of their answers start with a reference to their alignment as an excuse to hosing your character over, then point them to this article by Rich Burlew. Making Tough Decisions. See also what My Guy Syndrome is and explain how that is screwing up your enjoyment of the game. As a fellow player, a character's alignment isn't an excuse to screw over a fellow player... unless you all agree ahead of time that "dog-eat-dog" is how this table plays and gets its fun. If "dog-eat-dog" is the group consensus, then you need to decide if you want to embrace that approach, or not. Up to you.



                                    Find out where you stand



                                    If your fellow players are not interested in having this kind of conversation, about "how we can all get along as players" then we once again return to Point 1: find better use for your free time.



                                    If, on the other hand, at least a few players, like your monk team mate, are interested in working as a team to defeat monsters and find treasure, then you have the chance to create a core team that works together. Focus on that for the next few sessions and see how it goes.



                                    Does the team of adventurers perform, or does it remain a bunch of individuals doing their own thing? The result should inform your decision to stay at this table, or not.



                                    For some related answers on getting a group on the same page, take a look at the answers to this question about the Same Page Tool.







                                    share|improve this answer














                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer








                                    edited Nov 12 at 21:12

























                                    answered Nov 12 at 18:53









                                    KorvinStarmast

                                    70.8k17222390




                                    70.8k17222390






















                                        up vote
                                        6
                                        down vote













                                        You can say to the DM: "hey, I didn't have fun in your game because my character was unconscious for most of it." That's a legitimate criticism. You can add: "...so I won't be coming back" if you want, but I'd probably leave that unsaid in case I changed my mind about it later.



                                        It's true that the DM wasn't required to give your character a chance to heal, but a good DM could have noticed the problem and done something to fix it. It's also true that a good set of players would have found a way to heal your character.



                                        I'll note that I once had a very similar experience to yours: I wandered into a game store, joined a table as like the eighth player, and my character quickly went unconscious and nobody healed him. In that case I concluded that probably that table hadn't really wanted an eighth player, which was why they hadn't made much effort to be welcoming. Maybe your case is similar.



                                        Sorry to hear this went badly for you.






                                        share|improve this answer

























                                          up vote
                                          6
                                          down vote













                                          You can say to the DM: "hey, I didn't have fun in your game because my character was unconscious for most of it." That's a legitimate criticism. You can add: "...so I won't be coming back" if you want, but I'd probably leave that unsaid in case I changed my mind about it later.



                                          It's true that the DM wasn't required to give your character a chance to heal, but a good DM could have noticed the problem and done something to fix it. It's also true that a good set of players would have found a way to heal your character.



                                          I'll note that I once had a very similar experience to yours: I wandered into a game store, joined a table as like the eighth player, and my character quickly went unconscious and nobody healed him. In that case I concluded that probably that table hadn't really wanted an eighth player, which was why they hadn't made much effort to be welcoming. Maybe your case is similar.



                                          Sorry to hear this went badly for you.






                                          share|improve this answer























                                            up vote
                                            6
                                            down vote










                                            up vote
                                            6
                                            down vote









                                            You can say to the DM: "hey, I didn't have fun in your game because my character was unconscious for most of it." That's a legitimate criticism. You can add: "...so I won't be coming back" if you want, but I'd probably leave that unsaid in case I changed my mind about it later.



                                            It's true that the DM wasn't required to give your character a chance to heal, but a good DM could have noticed the problem and done something to fix it. It's also true that a good set of players would have found a way to heal your character.



                                            I'll note that I once had a very similar experience to yours: I wandered into a game store, joined a table as like the eighth player, and my character quickly went unconscious and nobody healed him. In that case I concluded that probably that table hadn't really wanted an eighth player, which was why they hadn't made much effort to be welcoming. Maybe your case is similar.



                                            Sorry to hear this went badly for you.






                                            share|improve this answer












                                            You can say to the DM: "hey, I didn't have fun in your game because my character was unconscious for most of it." That's a legitimate criticism. You can add: "...so I won't be coming back" if you want, but I'd probably leave that unsaid in case I changed my mind about it later.



                                            It's true that the DM wasn't required to give your character a chance to heal, but a good DM could have noticed the problem and done something to fix it. It's also true that a good set of players would have found a way to heal your character.



                                            I'll note that I once had a very similar experience to yours: I wandered into a game store, joined a table as like the eighth player, and my character quickly went unconscious and nobody healed him. In that case I concluded that probably that table hadn't really wanted an eighth player, which was why they hadn't made much effort to be welcoming. Maybe your case is similar.



                                            Sorry to hear this went badly for you.







                                            share|improve this answer












                                            share|improve this answer



                                            share|improve this answer










                                            answered Nov 12 at 19:05









                                            Dan B

                                            33.8k762133




                                            33.8k762133






















                                                up vote
                                                6
                                                down vote













                                                This answer is predicated on my understanding that:




                                                • There were 6 players including: You; a friend or person known to you who treated your character acceptably; and 4 players who were all unknown to you, playing for the first time, and treated you poorly.

                                                • The GM is known to you and a friend of yours.

                                                • This is a one-shot campaign and the window for in-game consequences to manifest is closed.


                                                This is almost pessimal because unlike many answers here, I fault both the other players and the GM. What the GM could or should have done is probably beyond the scope of this question, but it seems from your description that your PC rescued the quest giver, and that the quest giver also did nothing effective on your behalf. Therefore, I think what your GM could/should have done is not nothing. I also think this sounds like a pretty awful gaming experience and I would be annoyed, too.



                                                I am tacitly assuming that you are not so annoyed by this that your existing friendships are already broken past repair and that you'd like to keep them.



                                                I don't see any road to a solution that doesn't run through the GM and doesn't require his agreement and support; therefore, I don't see a way to entirely shield the GM from a criticism of the game. If you think you are sufficiently close to the GM, a simple, "I don't want to play (or won't play) with those guys again: Here's why...." might be enough. The thing is, you have to be ready to have your bluff called. Or you have to not be bluffing.



                                                If you don't think that's going to fly, or if you are more forgiving than I am, you can try to lead your GM to the idea of having something like a Session 0, or even just a good serious laying down of expectations. But that is also something that probably needs to spring from a discussion between you and the GM about why it is necessary. Which will be a recitation of everything you found not-fun about his game. This may or may not turn into a discussion of what the GM can or should have done differently as well-- that is a judgment call to be made in the moment.



                                                But I don't see how you avoid telling the GM that you had little or no fun at his game, which is always hard for a GM to hear.






                                                share|improve this answer



























                                                  up vote
                                                  6
                                                  down vote













                                                  This answer is predicated on my understanding that:




                                                  • There were 6 players including: You; a friend or person known to you who treated your character acceptably; and 4 players who were all unknown to you, playing for the first time, and treated you poorly.

                                                  • The GM is known to you and a friend of yours.

                                                  • This is a one-shot campaign and the window for in-game consequences to manifest is closed.


                                                  This is almost pessimal because unlike many answers here, I fault both the other players and the GM. What the GM could or should have done is probably beyond the scope of this question, but it seems from your description that your PC rescued the quest giver, and that the quest giver also did nothing effective on your behalf. Therefore, I think what your GM could/should have done is not nothing. I also think this sounds like a pretty awful gaming experience and I would be annoyed, too.



                                                  I am tacitly assuming that you are not so annoyed by this that your existing friendships are already broken past repair and that you'd like to keep them.



                                                  I don't see any road to a solution that doesn't run through the GM and doesn't require his agreement and support; therefore, I don't see a way to entirely shield the GM from a criticism of the game. If you think you are sufficiently close to the GM, a simple, "I don't want to play (or won't play) with those guys again: Here's why...." might be enough. The thing is, you have to be ready to have your bluff called. Or you have to not be bluffing.



                                                  If you don't think that's going to fly, or if you are more forgiving than I am, you can try to lead your GM to the idea of having something like a Session 0, or even just a good serious laying down of expectations. But that is also something that probably needs to spring from a discussion between you and the GM about why it is necessary. Which will be a recitation of everything you found not-fun about his game. This may or may not turn into a discussion of what the GM can or should have done differently as well-- that is a judgment call to be made in the moment.



                                                  But I don't see how you avoid telling the GM that you had little or no fun at his game, which is always hard for a GM to hear.






                                                  share|improve this answer

























                                                    up vote
                                                    6
                                                    down vote










                                                    up vote
                                                    6
                                                    down vote









                                                    This answer is predicated on my understanding that:




                                                    • There were 6 players including: You; a friend or person known to you who treated your character acceptably; and 4 players who were all unknown to you, playing for the first time, and treated you poorly.

                                                    • The GM is known to you and a friend of yours.

                                                    • This is a one-shot campaign and the window for in-game consequences to manifest is closed.


                                                    This is almost pessimal because unlike many answers here, I fault both the other players and the GM. What the GM could or should have done is probably beyond the scope of this question, but it seems from your description that your PC rescued the quest giver, and that the quest giver also did nothing effective on your behalf. Therefore, I think what your GM could/should have done is not nothing. I also think this sounds like a pretty awful gaming experience and I would be annoyed, too.



                                                    I am tacitly assuming that you are not so annoyed by this that your existing friendships are already broken past repair and that you'd like to keep them.



                                                    I don't see any road to a solution that doesn't run through the GM and doesn't require his agreement and support; therefore, I don't see a way to entirely shield the GM from a criticism of the game. If you think you are sufficiently close to the GM, a simple, "I don't want to play (or won't play) with those guys again: Here's why...." might be enough. The thing is, you have to be ready to have your bluff called. Or you have to not be bluffing.



                                                    If you don't think that's going to fly, or if you are more forgiving than I am, you can try to lead your GM to the idea of having something like a Session 0, or even just a good serious laying down of expectations. But that is also something that probably needs to spring from a discussion between you and the GM about why it is necessary. Which will be a recitation of everything you found not-fun about his game. This may or may not turn into a discussion of what the GM can or should have done differently as well-- that is a judgment call to be made in the moment.



                                                    But I don't see how you avoid telling the GM that you had little or no fun at his game, which is always hard for a GM to hear.






                                                    share|improve this answer














                                                    This answer is predicated on my understanding that:




                                                    • There were 6 players including: You; a friend or person known to you who treated your character acceptably; and 4 players who were all unknown to you, playing for the first time, and treated you poorly.

                                                    • The GM is known to you and a friend of yours.

                                                    • This is a one-shot campaign and the window for in-game consequences to manifest is closed.


                                                    This is almost pessimal because unlike many answers here, I fault both the other players and the GM. What the GM could or should have done is probably beyond the scope of this question, but it seems from your description that your PC rescued the quest giver, and that the quest giver also did nothing effective on your behalf. Therefore, I think what your GM could/should have done is not nothing. I also think this sounds like a pretty awful gaming experience and I would be annoyed, too.



                                                    I am tacitly assuming that you are not so annoyed by this that your existing friendships are already broken past repair and that you'd like to keep them.



                                                    I don't see any road to a solution that doesn't run through the GM and doesn't require his agreement and support; therefore, I don't see a way to entirely shield the GM from a criticism of the game. If you think you are sufficiently close to the GM, a simple, "I don't want to play (or won't play) with those guys again: Here's why...." might be enough. The thing is, you have to be ready to have your bluff called. Or you have to not be bluffing.



                                                    If you don't think that's going to fly, or if you are more forgiving than I am, you can try to lead your GM to the idea of having something like a Session 0, or even just a good serious laying down of expectations. But that is also something that probably needs to spring from a discussion between you and the GM about why it is necessary. Which will be a recitation of everything you found not-fun about his game. This may or may not turn into a discussion of what the GM can or should have done differently as well-- that is a judgment call to be made in the moment.



                                                    But I don't see how you avoid telling the GM that you had little or no fun at his game, which is always hard for a GM to hear.







                                                    share|improve this answer














                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer








                                                    edited 2 days ago

























                                                    answered 2 days ago









                                                    Novak

                                                    14.7k42567




                                                    14.7k42567






















                                                        up vote
                                                        5
                                                        down vote













                                                        Don't Blame, Improve Together



                                                        The other answers are all great. Here's the same thing again, with a different focus:



                                                        Do talk to them, the whole group, and stay with the facts. You did not enjoy last time, because you couldn't do anything other than spectate (add your own reasons here). Make sure you do not start off by blaming somebody - that is likely to make most persons defensive instead of trying to improve together. And here's the thing: I believe it is somewhat normal for first time players to not work well as a party. And it is possible to become better players in the social aspect.



                                                        Get clear on what bothers you. Perhaps, you take issue with the fact that the whole party was charmed and only you could fight. Perhaps you rather have a problem with the fact that nobody healed you. Or maybe the only thing bothering you was when you went out of game, but you would have been happy walking around with low HP if you wouldn't have been on timeout for so long, and died instantly instead.



                                                        The DM has one goal: That the players (and the DM) have fun.

                                                        If you phrase it right, you can make this a talk about improving the fun for everybody, instead of a blame game.




                                                        • State the facts. Not "It was awful", but "I did not enjoy X and Y because it made me feel like Z". That's something the group can work with and nobody must feel attacked as a person.

                                                        • Consider that you might have done some things wrong too. Ask the others what they would like to be different from now on.

                                                        • If you enjoyed anything, even if it is small, mention it! Because good things make bad things easier to digest, and also because it tells the DM what you'd like to have more of. A DM has to balance fights with roleplay with puzzles with player-interaction with keeping things realistic with keeping things fun ... and the list goes on. Knowing where the players' priorities lie can be a huge help

                                                        • Have some ideas ready, how this could be improved.


                                                          • You could get some ingame reason for the other PCs to want to help you

                                                          • You could decide as Players, outside of the game, that you want to be a Team. (We have had a similar, though lighter, problem when I played for the first time. When I DM'ed for the first time after that, I made sure to tell the players that their characters must be adventurers, have a reason to adventure, and want to stay with the party and work together with them. No assholes to the party allowed.

                                                          • Your DM could decide that death is instant when you fall unconscious and are not revived within some minutes - if all the players agree

                                                          • ... come up with your own. Or together with the group



                                                        • To prevent future issues, you might want to discuss what you know is important to you. You all. Somebody doesn't like PvP? Then maybe agree to disallow it. Somebody is not comfortable with robbing graves? Than it's important the DM knows this before the story is built around exactly that. If you'd like more examples, search for some session zero examples.






                                                        share|improve this answer

























                                                          up vote
                                                          5
                                                          down vote













                                                          Don't Blame, Improve Together



                                                          The other answers are all great. Here's the same thing again, with a different focus:



                                                          Do talk to them, the whole group, and stay with the facts. You did not enjoy last time, because you couldn't do anything other than spectate (add your own reasons here). Make sure you do not start off by blaming somebody - that is likely to make most persons defensive instead of trying to improve together. And here's the thing: I believe it is somewhat normal for first time players to not work well as a party. And it is possible to become better players in the social aspect.



                                                          Get clear on what bothers you. Perhaps, you take issue with the fact that the whole party was charmed and only you could fight. Perhaps you rather have a problem with the fact that nobody healed you. Or maybe the only thing bothering you was when you went out of game, but you would have been happy walking around with low HP if you wouldn't have been on timeout for so long, and died instantly instead.



                                                          The DM has one goal: That the players (and the DM) have fun.

                                                          If you phrase it right, you can make this a talk about improving the fun for everybody, instead of a blame game.




                                                          • State the facts. Not "It was awful", but "I did not enjoy X and Y because it made me feel like Z". That's something the group can work with and nobody must feel attacked as a person.

                                                          • Consider that you might have done some things wrong too. Ask the others what they would like to be different from now on.

                                                          • If you enjoyed anything, even if it is small, mention it! Because good things make bad things easier to digest, and also because it tells the DM what you'd like to have more of. A DM has to balance fights with roleplay with puzzles with player-interaction with keeping things realistic with keeping things fun ... and the list goes on. Knowing where the players' priorities lie can be a huge help

                                                          • Have some ideas ready, how this could be improved.


                                                            • You could get some ingame reason for the other PCs to want to help you

                                                            • You could decide as Players, outside of the game, that you want to be a Team. (We have had a similar, though lighter, problem when I played for the first time. When I DM'ed for the first time after that, I made sure to tell the players that their characters must be adventurers, have a reason to adventure, and want to stay with the party and work together with them. No assholes to the party allowed.

                                                            • Your DM could decide that death is instant when you fall unconscious and are not revived within some minutes - if all the players agree

                                                            • ... come up with your own. Or together with the group



                                                          • To prevent future issues, you might want to discuss what you know is important to you. You all. Somebody doesn't like PvP? Then maybe agree to disallow it. Somebody is not comfortable with robbing graves? Than it's important the DM knows this before the story is built around exactly that. If you'd like more examples, search for some session zero examples.






                                                          share|improve this answer























                                                            up vote
                                                            5
                                                            down vote










                                                            up vote
                                                            5
                                                            down vote









                                                            Don't Blame, Improve Together



                                                            The other answers are all great. Here's the same thing again, with a different focus:



                                                            Do talk to them, the whole group, and stay with the facts. You did not enjoy last time, because you couldn't do anything other than spectate (add your own reasons here). Make sure you do not start off by blaming somebody - that is likely to make most persons defensive instead of trying to improve together. And here's the thing: I believe it is somewhat normal for first time players to not work well as a party. And it is possible to become better players in the social aspect.



                                                            Get clear on what bothers you. Perhaps, you take issue with the fact that the whole party was charmed and only you could fight. Perhaps you rather have a problem with the fact that nobody healed you. Or maybe the only thing bothering you was when you went out of game, but you would have been happy walking around with low HP if you wouldn't have been on timeout for so long, and died instantly instead.



                                                            The DM has one goal: That the players (and the DM) have fun.

                                                            If you phrase it right, you can make this a talk about improving the fun for everybody, instead of a blame game.




                                                            • State the facts. Not "It was awful", but "I did not enjoy X and Y because it made me feel like Z". That's something the group can work with and nobody must feel attacked as a person.

                                                            • Consider that you might have done some things wrong too. Ask the others what they would like to be different from now on.

                                                            • If you enjoyed anything, even if it is small, mention it! Because good things make bad things easier to digest, and also because it tells the DM what you'd like to have more of. A DM has to balance fights with roleplay with puzzles with player-interaction with keeping things realistic with keeping things fun ... and the list goes on. Knowing where the players' priorities lie can be a huge help

                                                            • Have some ideas ready, how this could be improved.


                                                              • You could get some ingame reason for the other PCs to want to help you

                                                              • You could decide as Players, outside of the game, that you want to be a Team. (We have had a similar, though lighter, problem when I played for the first time. When I DM'ed for the first time after that, I made sure to tell the players that their characters must be adventurers, have a reason to adventure, and want to stay with the party and work together with them. No assholes to the party allowed.

                                                              • Your DM could decide that death is instant when you fall unconscious and are not revived within some minutes - if all the players agree

                                                              • ... come up with your own. Or together with the group



                                                            • To prevent future issues, you might want to discuss what you know is important to you. You all. Somebody doesn't like PvP? Then maybe agree to disallow it. Somebody is not comfortable with robbing graves? Than it's important the DM knows this before the story is built around exactly that. If you'd like more examples, search for some session zero examples.






                                                            share|improve this answer












                                                            Don't Blame, Improve Together



                                                            The other answers are all great. Here's the same thing again, with a different focus:



                                                            Do talk to them, the whole group, and stay with the facts. You did not enjoy last time, because you couldn't do anything other than spectate (add your own reasons here). Make sure you do not start off by blaming somebody - that is likely to make most persons defensive instead of trying to improve together. And here's the thing: I believe it is somewhat normal for first time players to not work well as a party. And it is possible to become better players in the social aspect.



                                                            Get clear on what bothers you. Perhaps, you take issue with the fact that the whole party was charmed and only you could fight. Perhaps you rather have a problem with the fact that nobody healed you. Or maybe the only thing bothering you was when you went out of game, but you would have been happy walking around with low HP if you wouldn't have been on timeout for so long, and died instantly instead.



                                                            The DM has one goal: That the players (and the DM) have fun.

                                                            If you phrase it right, you can make this a talk about improving the fun for everybody, instead of a blame game.




                                                            • State the facts. Not "It was awful", but "I did not enjoy X and Y because it made me feel like Z". That's something the group can work with and nobody must feel attacked as a person.

                                                            • Consider that you might have done some things wrong too. Ask the others what they would like to be different from now on.

                                                            • If you enjoyed anything, even if it is small, mention it! Because good things make bad things easier to digest, and also because it tells the DM what you'd like to have more of. A DM has to balance fights with roleplay with puzzles with player-interaction with keeping things realistic with keeping things fun ... and the list goes on. Knowing where the players' priorities lie can be a huge help

                                                            • Have some ideas ready, how this could be improved.


                                                              • You could get some ingame reason for the other PCs to want to help you

                                                              • You could decide as Players, outside of the game, that you want to be a Team. (We have had a similar, though lighter, problem when I played for the first time. When I DM'ed for the first time after that, I made sure to tell the players that their characters must be adventurers, have a reason to adventure, and want to stay with the party and work together with them. No assholes to the party allowed.

                                                              • Your DM could decide that death is instant when you fall unconscious and are not revived within some minutes - if all the players agree

                                                              • ... come up with your own. Or together with the group



                                                            • To prevent future issues, you might want to discuss what you know is important to you. You all. Somebody doesn't like PvP? Then maybe agree to disallow it. Somebody is not comfortable with robbing graves? Than it's important the DM knows this before the story is built around exactly that. If you'd like more examples, search for some session zero examples.







                                                            share|improve this answer












                                                            share|improve this answer



                                                            share|improve this answer










                                                            answered Nov 12 at 18:49









                                                            lucidbrot

                                                            413313




                                                            413313






















                                                                up vote
                                                                4
                                                                down vote













                                                                Devil's Advocate



                                                                Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let's flip the script. You admit you got bored and took out your phone at the game table. How do you think the party and DM felt about that? How motivated would that make you appear to want to play the game?



                                                                Instead of questioning what the DM did/didn't do, think about what you could have done.



                                                                Know the rules



                                                                If you're unconsious and stable for 1d4 hours, you wake up with 1 hp. Otherwise, you could have argued that being unconsious was resting, and asked to use hit dice. Instead you took out your phone.



                                                                Grab a PreGen and Keep Going.



                                                                Did you think to ask, "since this character is effectively dead, can I start a new one using the official WotC pregens?"



                                                                You touch on this, but you don't say if you brought it up at the table.



                                                                It is okay to Walk Away



                                                                If you did try to get back into the one-shot, and we're denied, and you feel it is symptomatic of a problem with the DM and/or other players, then not playing with them in the future is an acceptable option. You said this was a one-shot you can leave it there easy enough.



                                                                As far as it being the only game in town, I've had success in interesting my family and friends into playing.






                                                                share|improve this answer

























                                                                  up vote
                                                                  4
                                                                  down vote













                                                                  Devil's Advocate



                                                                  Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let's flip the script. You admit you got bored and took out your phone at the game table. How do you think the party and DM felt about that? How motivated would that make you appear to want to play the game?



                                                                  Instead of questioning what the DM did/didn't do, think about what you could have done.



                                                                  Know the rules



                                                                  If you're unconsious and stable for 1d4 hours, you wake up with 1 hp. Otherwise, you could have argued that being unconsious was resting, and asked to use hit dice. Instead you took out your phone.



                                                                  Grab a PreGen and Keep Going.



                                                                  Did you think to ask, "since this character is effectively dead, can I start a new one using the official WotC pregens?"



                                                                  You touch on this, but you don't say if you brought it up at the table.



                                                                  It is okay to Walk Away



                                                                  If you did try to get back into the one-shot, and we're denied, and you feel it is symptomatic of a problem with the DM and/or other players, then not playing with them in the future is an acceptable option. You said this was a one-shot you can leave it there easy enough.



                                                                  As far as it being the only game in town, I've had success in interesting my family and friends into playing.






                                                                  share|improve this answer























                                                                    up vote
                                                                    4
                                                                    down vote










                                                                    up vote
                                                                    4
                                                                    down vote









                                                                    Devil's Advocate



                                                                    Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let's flip the script. You admit you got bored and took out your phone at the game table. How do you think the party and DM felt about that? How motivated would that make you appear to want to play the game?



                                                                    Instead of questioning what the DM did/didn't do, think about what you could have done.



                                                                    Know the rules



                                                                    If you're unconsious and stable for 1d4 hours, you wake up with 1 hp. Otherwise, you could have argued that being unconsious was resting, and asked to use hit dice. Instead you took out your phone.



                                                                    Grab a PreGen and Keep Going.



                                                                    Did you think to ask, "since this character is effectively dead, can I start a new one using the official WotC pregens?"



                                                                    You touch on this, but you don't say if you brought it up at the table.



                                                                    It is okay to Walk Away



                                                                    If you did try to get back into the one-shot, and we're denied, and you feel it is symptomatic of a problem with the DM and/or other players, then not playing with them in the future is an acceptable option. You said this was a one-shot you can leave it there easy enough.



                                                                    As far as it being the only game in town, I've had success in interesting my family and friends into playing.






                                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                                    Devil's Advocate



                                                                    Just to play Devil's Advocate here, let's flip the script. You admit you got bored and took out your phone at the game table. How do you think the party and DM felt about that? How motivated would that make you appear to want to play the game?



                                                                    Instead of questioning what the DM did/didn't do, think about what you could have done.



                                                                    Know the rules



                                                                    If you're unconsious and stable for 1d4 hours, you wake up with 1 hp. Otherwise, you could have argued that being unconsious was resting, and asked to use hit dice. Instead you took out your phone.



                                                                    Grab a PreGen and Keep Going.



                                                                    Did you think to ask, "since this character is effectively dead, can I start a new one using the official WotC pregens?"



                                                                    You touch on this, but you don't say if you brought it up at the table.



                                                                    It is okay to Walk Away



                                                                    If you did try to get back into the one-shot, and we're denied, and you feel it is symptomatic of a problem with the DM and/or other players, then not playing with them in the future is an acceptable option. You said this was a one-shot you can leave it there easy enough.



                                                                    As far as it being the only game in town, I've had success in interesting my family and friends into playing.







                                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                                    answered Nov 13 at 5:11









                                                                    J. A. Streich

                                                                    23.4k169123




                                                                    23.4k169123

















                                                                        protected by doppelgreener Nov 13 at 9:07



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