Is there an industry standard for Gender model other than male and female? [on hold]
up vote
23
down vote
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I am modeling a database that should be used as generic non-functional requisite for all services of the startup company, like persons, users, services and commercial data like coupons, signature packages, etc.
I am thinking about the Gender model. In these modern days and with different laws across countries about subjective identity, should I take that into consideration and model my Person entity with more than just the male and female options?
Options are: undefined, not-answered, other, transgender... or any other industry standard that I am unaware of...
Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female?
database-design domain-model data-modeling
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by gnat, Blrfl, Greg Burghardt, jwenting, BЈовић 23 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
|
show 16 more comments
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
I am modeling a database that should be used as generic non-functional requisite for all services of the startup company, like persons, users, services and commercial data like coupons, signature packages, etc.
I am thinking about the Gender model. In these modern days and with different laws across countries about subjective identity, should I take that into consideration and model my Person entity with more than just the male and female options?
Options are: undefined, not-answered, other, transgender... or any other industry standard that I am unaware of...
Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female?
database-design domain-model data-modeling
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by gnat, Blrfl, Greg Burghardt, jwenting, BЈовић 23 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
50
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
7
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
27
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
25
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
6
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago
|
show 16 more comments
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
up vote
23
down vote
favorite
I am modeling a database that should be used as generic non-functional requisite for all services of the startup company, like persons, users, services and commercial data like coupons, signature packages, etc.
I am thinking about the Gender model. In these modern days and with different laws across countries about subjective identity, should I take that into consideration and model my Person entity with more than just the male and female options?
Options are: undefined, not-answered, other, transgender... or any other industry standard that I am unaware of...
Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female?
database-design domain-model data-modeling
I am modeling a database that should be used as generic non-functional requisite for all services of the startup company, like persons, users, services and commercial data like coupons, signature packages, etc.
I am thinking about the Gender model. In these modern days and with different laws across countries about subjective identity, should I take that into consideration and model my Person entity with more than just the male and female options?
Options are: undefined, not-answered, other, transgender... or any other industry standard that I am unaware of...
Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female?
database-design domain-model data-modeling
database-design domain-model data-modeling
edited yesterday
Malandy
1033
1033
asked 2 days ago
PSyLoCKe
279210
279210
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by gnat, Blrfl, Greg Burghardt, jwenting, BЈовић 23 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by gnat, Blrfl, Greg Burghardt, jwenting, BЈовић 23 hours ago
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
50
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
7
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
27
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
25
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
6
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago
|
show 16 more comments
50
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
7
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
27
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
25
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
6
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago
50
50
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
7
7
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
27
27
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
25
25
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
6
6
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago
|
show 16 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
64
down vote
accepted
First consider why you need to collect this data. Do not collect it if it is unnecessary. For example:
You would like to address the individuals properly. Then, simply ask for their preferred form of address/honorific/title, such as “Mr.” or “Mx.”. This should be a free-form field, not dropdown list. There are more possible forms of address than can be enumerated, especially if you consider clerical, academic, or military forms. There is not necessarily any relation between gender and honorific.
You would prefer to analyze behavior by gender. Then you will likely not be interested in genders other than male/female. In that case, offer three choices: female, male, or other/prefer not to say. The last could be a free-form text box that can be left empty.
Note that collecting and using this kind of data may be subject to privacy laws, so make sure the collection and analysis is legal. E.g. under the GDPR you may have to acquire the user's informed consent first, but that only applies if you or potential users are in the EU.
You need to process this data for a specific legal or medical reason. Then, do not guess which information may be needed but find out your actual requirements. E.g. in some jurisdictions only two genders are legally recognized, but the legal gender might be irrelevant in software used for a sexual health clinic.
You may want to keep your software portable and future-proof, so do not assume that there is a fixed enumeration of genders. Make it possible to update this list e.g. by updating a config file. You may also want to assume the possibility that there is no fixed list. In a database, a VARCHAR field may be appropriate.
Because of these differences in purpose and context, it is difficult to build an universal model for the “gender” concept.
Note: the English word “gender” describes a social role or identity, whereas the term “sex” describes biological aspects such as physiology or genetics. Neither of these concepts is unambiguous. Again, it depends on the context as to which of these concepts is relevant (if at all) and which values are “allowed” in that context.
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
24
down vote
Sometimes the term gender may be used when sex is meant. Sex is defined by a person's biological traits whereas gender is determined by identity.
The standard for sex is codified by the ISO/IEC 5218 standard [download].
There are four available values
0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable
Similar values can be given for gender
male
female
non-binary
prefer not to say
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
11
down vote
As you mentioned Healthcare, it's worth looking at the NHS Data Dictionary for an example, used in the UK as one of the national coding systems for health data (alongside SNOMED).
Depending on whether you want sex or gender, there are two codings: for gender, it's the PERSON STATED GENDER CODE, whilst for sex it's PERSON PHENOTYPIC SEX CLASSIFICATION.
As it turns out both coding schemes are currently identical, but they may diverge. As at time of writing, they are:
- 1 - Male
- 2 - Female
- 9 - Indeterminate
Within the international SNOMED classifications, the concept 365873007 has gender codes for male, female, unknown and transgender; and the UK extensions to international SNOMED have added an option for non-binary. For biological sex, the concept 429019009 has codes for female, male, intersex, indeterminate, and transsexual.
New contributor
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
If you do not need the gender, do not ask or store it. As you mentioned laws, nowadays laws in various countries increasingly disourage use of personal information unless it's essentional to the functionality. Snap googling shows that Brazil is not excluded from it. Easies way to stay safe is do not handle the information at all. Do not include this field, or others like it, to the "basic information". Limit it to nickname and email, to recover password, that's it. For rest, provide free-form text area where the person can describe oneself, who wants could write there all their first names and surname, as well as their gender, religion, sexual orientation, what they eat or whatever.
If you do need the gender for some purpose, it should be be defined by the purpose. You said healthcare. For healthcare such matter should be unambiguously defined by relevant regulations. I have not worked with healthcare myself, but those who did say dealing with them is not easily avoided. Also, I would say it should be handled with same security standards as other medical information.
add a comment |
protected by gnat yesterday
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
64
down vote
accepted
First consider why you need to collect this data. Do not collect it if it is unnecessary. For example:
You would like to address the individuals properly. Then, simply ask for their preferred form of address/honorific/title, such as “Mr.” or “Mx.”. This should be a free-form field, not dropdown list. There are more possible forms of address than can be enumerated, especially if you consider clerical, academic, or military forms. There is not necessarily any relation between gender and honorific.
You would prefer to analyze behavior by gender. Then you will likely not be interested in genders other than male/female. In that case, offer three choices: female, male, or other/prefer not to say. The last could be a free-form text box that can be left empty.
Note that collecting and using this kind of data may be subject to privacy laws, so make sure the collection and analysis is legal. E.g. under the GDPR you may have to acquire the user's informed consent first, but that only applies if you or potential users are in the EU.
You need to process this data for a specific legal or medical reason. Then, do not guess which information may be needed but find out your actual requirements. E.g. in some jurisdictions only two genders are legally recognized, but the legal gender might be irrelevant in software used for a sexual health clinic.
You may want to keep your software portable and future-proof, so do not assume that there is a fixed enumeration of genders. Make it possible to update this list e.g. by updating a config file. You may also want to assume the possibility that there is no fixed list. In a database, a VARCHAR field may be appropriate.
Because of these differences in purpose and context, it is difficult to build an universal model for the “gender” concept.
Note: the English word “gender” describes a social role or identity, whereas the term “sex” describes biological aspects such as physiology or genetics. Neither of these concepts is unambiguous. Again, it depends on the context as to which of these concepts is relevant (if at all) and which values are “allowed” in that context.
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
64
down vote
accepted
First consider why you need to collect this data. Do not collect it if it is unnecessary. For example:
You would like to address the individuals properly. Then, simply ask for their preferred form of address/honorific/title, such as “Mr.” or “Mx.”. This should be a free-form field, not dropdown list. There are more possible forms of address than can be enumerated, especially if you consider clerical, academic, or military forms. There is not necessarily any relation between gender and honorific.
You would prefer to analyze behavior by gender. Then you will likely not be interested in genders other than male/female. In that case, offer three choices: female, male, or other/prefer not to say. The last could be a free-form text box that can be left empty.
Note that collecting and using this kind of data may be subject to privacy laws, so make sure the collection and analysis is legal. E.g. under the GDPR you may have to acquire the user's informed consent first, but that only applies if you or potential users are in the EU.
You need to process this data for a specific legal or medical reason. Then, do not guess which information may be needed but find out your actual requirements. E.g. in some jurisdictions only two genders are legally recognized, but the legal gender might be irrelevant in software used for a sexual health clinic.
You may want to keep your software portable and future-proof, so do not assume that there is a fixed enumeration of genders. Make it possible to update this list e.g. by updating a config file. You may also want to assume the possibility that there is no fixed list. In a database, a VARCHAR field may be appropriate.
Because of these differences in purpose and context, it is difficult to build an universal model for the “gender” concept.
Note: the English word “gender” describes a social role or identity, whereas the term “sex” describes biological aspects such as physiology or genetics. Neither of these concepts is unambiguous. Again, it depends on the context as to which of these concepts is relevant (if at all) and which values are “allowed” in that context.
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
64
down vote
accepted
up vote
64
down vote
accepted
First consider why you need to collect this data. Do not collect it if it is unnecessary. For example:
You would like to address the individuals properly. Then, simply ask for their preferred form of address/honorific/title, such as “Mr.” or “Mx.”. This should be a free-form field, not dropdown list. There are more possible forms of address than can be enumerated, especially if you consider clerical, academic, or military forms. There is not necessarily any relation between gender and honorific.
You would prefer to analyze behavior by gender. Then you will likely not be interested in genders other than male/female. In that case, offer three choices: female, male, or other/prefer not to say. The last could be a free-form text box that can be left empty.
Note that collecting and using this kind of data may be subject to privacy laws, so make sure the collection and analysis is legal. E.g. under the GDPR you may have to acquire the user's informed consent first, but that only applies if you or potential users are in the EU.
You need to process this data for a specific legal or medical reason. Then, do not guess which information may be needed but find out your actual requirements. E.g. in some jurisdictions only two genders are legally recognized, but the legal gender might be irrelevant in software used for a sexual health clinic.
You may want to keep your software portable and future-proof, so do not assume that there is a fixed enumeration of genders. Make it possible to update this list e.g. by updating a config file. You may also want to assume the possibility that there is no fixed list. In a database, a VARCHAR field may be appropriate.
Because of these differences in purpose and context, it is difficult to build an universal model for the “gender” concept.
Note: the English word “gender” describes a social role or identity, whereas the term “sex” describes biological aspects such as physiology or genetics. Neither of these concepts is unambiguous. Again, it depends on the context as to which of these concepts is relevant (if at all) and which values are “allowed” in that context.
First consider why you need to collect this data. Do not collect it if it is unnecessary. For example:
You would like to address the individuals properly. Then, simply ask for their preferred form of address/honorific/title, such as “Mr.” or “Mx.”. This should be a free-form field, not dropdown list. There are more possible forms of address than can be enumerated, especially if you consider clerical, academic, or military forms. There is not necessarily any relation between gender and honorific.
You would prefer to analyze behavior by gender. Then you will likely not be interested in genders other than male/female. In that case, offer three choices: female, male, or other/prefer not to say. The last could be a free-form text box that can be left empty.
Note that collecting and using this kind of data may be subject to privacy laws, so make sure the collection and analysis is legal. E.g. under the GDPR you may have to acquire the user's informed consent first, but that only applies if you or potential users are in the EU.
You need to process this data for a specific legal or medical reason. Then, do not guess which information may be needed but find out your actual requirements. E.g. in some jurisdictions only two genders are legally recognized, but the legal gender might be irrelevant in software used for a sexual health clinic.
You may want to keep your software portable and future-proof, so do not assume that there is a fixed enumeration of genders. Make it possible to update this list e.g. by updating a config file. You may also want to assume the possibility that there is no fixed list. In a database, a VARCHAR field may be appropriate.
Because of these differences in purpose and context, it is difficult to build an universal model for the “gender” concept.
Note: the English word “gender” describes a social role or identity, whereas the term “sex” describes biological aspects such as physiology or genetics. Neither of these concepts is unambiguous. Again, it depends on the context as to which of these concepts is relevant (if at all) and which values are “allowed” in that context.
answered 2 days ago
amon
82.1k21155240
82.1k21155240
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
1
1
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
Even Google asks for gender when we create a Google Account...
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
10
10
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
@PSyLoCKe Google also lets you leave the gender unspecified and also allows user-specified genders. They use it to determine suitable pronouns (e.g. “him” or “her”) and to tailor ads. → support.google.com/accounts/answer/27442?hl=en#gender
– amon
2 days ago
10
10
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
Not just a "sexual health clinic," any health facility is going to want info about your biology. It affects what medicines you can use, what problems you're at risk for, and the likelihood of different outcomes. Given the modern debates around all this, I'd hesitate to use the term "gender" for a question asking for your biological details, as I don't know how a transgender person would respond to that inquiry. I don't know how you can ask for that info in a medical setting now, since the terminology has been so confused.
– jpmc26
2 days ago
5
5
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
@PSyLoCKe: "That's a good model" - for Google. But your application is has probably different requirements.
– Doc Brown
2 days ago
2
2
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
That's good advice about not collecting unless you need it. The question is inherently personal and likely to alienate at least a few users who were on the fence about using your product.
– Owen
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
24
down vote
Sometimes the term gender may be used when sex is meant. Sex is defined by a person's biological traits whereas gender is determined by identity.
The standard for sex is codified by the ISO/IEC 5218 standard [download].
There are four available values
0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable
Similar values can be given for gender
male
female
non-binary
prefer not to say
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
24
down vote
Sometimes the term gender may be used when sex is meant. Sex is defined by a person's biological traits whereas gender is determined by identity.
The standard for sex is codified by the ISO/IEC 5218 standard [download].
There are four available values
0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable
Similar values can be given for gender
male
female
non-binary
prefer not to say
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
24
down vote
up vote
24
down vote
Sometimes the term gender may be used when sex is meant. Sex is defined by a person's biological traits whereas gender is determined by identity.
The standard for sex is codified by the ISO/IEC 5218 standard [download].
There are four available values
0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable
Similar values can be given for gender
male
female
non-binary
prefer not to say
Sometimes the term gender may be used when sex is meant. Sex is defined by a person's biological traits whereas gender is determined by identity.
The standard for sex is codified by the ISO/IEC 5218 standard [download].
There are four available values
0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable
Similar values can be given for gender
male
female
non-binary
prefer not to say
answered 2 days ago
Wes Toleman
45716
45716
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
3
3
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
While there may be such a standard, it's out of touch with reality and should not be used.
– R..
2 days ago
7
7
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
@R.. - What about it is outdated, and any suggestions on better ones?
– Malandy
2 days ago
4
4
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
And "out of touch with reality" doesn't mean "outdated". It was no more correct in the past.
– R..
2 days ago
8
8
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
@R.. Could you explain how this is "out of touch with reality"? It sounds like you are mixing gender (what someone identifies as) and sex (what someone is born as, determined via genitalia). The ISO/IEC standard is only for sex, not gender.
– n_b
2 days ago
4
4
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
@n_b A small percentage of people are born without a clearly determined sex, see Intersex. Some athletes don't find out until later in life when they are banned from competing as a female because they have abnormal chromosomes.
– Carl Walsh
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
11
down vote
As you mentioned Healthcare, it's worth looking at the NHS Data Dictionary for an example, used in the UK as one of the national coding systems for health data (alongside SNOMED).
Depending on whether you want sex or gender, there are two codings: for gender, it's the PERSON STATED GENDER CODE, whilst for sex it's PERSON PHENOTYPIC SEX CLASSIFICATION.
As it turns out both coding schemes are currently identical, but they may diverge. As at time of writing, they are:
- 1 - Male
- 2 - Female
- 9 - Indeterminate
Within the international SNOMED classifications, the concept 365873007 has gender codes for male, female, unknown and transgender; and the UK extensions to international SNOMED have added an option for non-binary. For biological sex, the concept 429019009 has codes for female, male, intersex, indeterminate, and transsexual.
New contributor
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
As you mentioned Healthcare, it's worth looking at the NHS Data Dictionary for an example, used in the UK as one of the national coding systems for health data (alongside SNOMED).
Depending on whether you want sex or gender, there are two codings: for gender, it's the PERSON STATED GENDER CODE, whilst for sex it's PERSON PHENOTYPIC SEX CLASSIFICATION.
As it turns out both coding schemes are currently identical, but they may diverge. As at time of writing, they are:
- 1 - Male
- 2 - Female
- 9 - Indeterminate
Within the international SNOMED classifications, the concept 365873007 has gender codes for male, female, unknown and transgender; and the UK extensions to international SNOMED have added an option for non-binary. For biological sex, the concept 429019009 has codes for female, male, intersex, indeterminate, and transsexual.
New contributor
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
As you mentioned Healthcare, it's worth looking at the NHS Data Dictionary for an example, used in the UK as one of the national coding systems for health data (alongside SNOMED).
Depending on whether you want sex or gender, there are two codings: for gender, it's the PERSON STATED GENDER CODE, whilst for sex it's PERSON PHENOTYPIC SEX CLASSIFICATION.
As it turns out both coding schemes are currently identical, but they may diverge. As at time of writing, they are:
- 1 - Male
- 2 - Female
- 9 - Indeterminate
Within the international SNOMED classifications, the concept 365873007 has gender codes for male, female, unknown and transgender; and the UK extensions to international SNOMED have added an option for non-binary. For biological sex, the concept 429019009 has codes for female, male, intersex, indeterminate, and transsexual.
New contributor
As you mentioned Healthcare, it's worth looking at the NHS Data Dictionary for an example, used in the UK as one of the national coding systems for health data (alongside SNOMED).
Depending on whether you want sex or gender, there are two codings: for gender, it's the PERSON STATED GENDER CODE, whilst for sex it's PERSON PHENOTYPIC SEX CLASSIFICATION.
As it turns out both coding schemes are currently identical, but they may diverge. As at time of writing, they are:
- 1 - Male
- 2 - Female
- 9 - Indeterminate
Within the international SNOMED classifications, the concept 365873007 has gender codes for male, female, unknown and transgender; and the UK extensions to international SNOMED have added an option for non-binary. For biological sex, the concept 429019009 has codes for female, male, intersex, indeterminate, and transsexual.
New contributor
edited yesterday
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
Chris J
22919
22919
New contributor
New contributor
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
add a comment |
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
Very good! I will search.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
If you do not need the gender, do not ask or store it. As you mentioned laws, nowadays laws in various countries increasingly disourage use of personal information unless it's essentional to the functionality. Snap googling shows that Brazil is not excluded from it. Easies way to stay safe is do not handle the information at all. Do not include this field, or others like it, to the "basic information". Limit it to nickname and email, to recover password, that's it. For rest, provide free-form text area where the person can describe oneself, who wants could write there all their first names and surname, as well as their gender, religion, sexual orientation, what they eat or whatever.
If you do need the gender for some purpose, it should be be defined by the purpose. You said healthcare. For healthcare such matter should be unambiguously defined by relevant regulations. I have not worked with healthcare myself, but those who did say dealing with them is not easily avoided. Also, I would say it should be handled with same security standards as other medical information.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
If you do not need the gender, do not ask or store it. As you mentioned laws, nowadays laws in various countries increasingly disourage use of personal information unless it's essentional to the functionality. Snap googling shows that Brazil is not excluded from it. Easies way to stay safe is do not handle the information at all. Do not include this field, or others like it, to the "basic information". Limit it to nickname and email, to recover password, that's it. For rest, provide free-form text area where the person can describe oneself, who wants could write there all their first names and surname, as well as their gender, religion, sexual orientation, what they eat or whatever.
If you do need the gender for some purpose, it should be be defined by the purpose. You said healthcare. For healthcare such matter should be unambiguously defined by relevant regulations. I have not worked with healthcare myself, but those who did say dealing with them is not easily avoided. Also, I would say it should be handled with same security standards as other medical information.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
If you do not need the gender, do not ask or store it. As you mentioned laws, nowadays laws in various countries increasingly disourage use of personal information unless it's essentional to the functionality. Snap googling shows that Brazil is not excluded from it. Easies way to stay safe is do not handle the information at all. Do not include this field, or others like it, to the "basic information". Limit it to nickname and email, to recover password, that's it. For rest, provide free-form text area where the person can describe oneself, who wants could write there all their first names and surname, as well as their gender, religion, sexual orientation, what they eat or whatever.
If you do need the gender for some purpose, it should be be defined by the purpose. You said healthcare. For healthcare such matter should be unambiguously defined by relevant regulations. I have not worked with healthcare myself, but those who did say dealing with them is not easily avoided. Also, I would say it should be handled with same security standards as other medical information.
If you do not need the gender, do not ask or store it. As you mentioned laws, nowadays laws in various countries increasingly disourage use of personal information unless it's essentional to the functionality. Snap googling shows that Brazil is not excluded from it. Easies way to stay safe is do not handle the information at all. Do not include this field, or others like it, to the "basic information". Limit it to nickname and email, to recover password, that's it. For rest, provide free-form text area where the person can describe oneself, who wants could write there all their first names and surname, as well as their gender, religion, sexual orientation, what they eat or whatever.
If you do need the gender for some purpose, it should be be defined by the purpose. You said healthcare. For healthcare such matter should be unambiguously defined by relevant regulations. I have not worked with healthcare myself, but those who did say dealing with them is not easily avoided. Also, I would say it should be handled with same security standards as other medical information.
answered 2 days ago
max630
1,072411
1,072411
add a comment |
add a comment |
protected by gnat yesterday
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50
Simple solution: don't ask the question.
– Philip Kendall
2 days ago
7
It is not a solution, as some of the services created involve health care, where it is important to know the gender of the person.
– PSyLoCKe
2 days ago
27
If it involves health care, gender doesn't help. You need specific information, as both primary and secondary sexual characteristics vary within genders. You need a free-form text field where detailed confidential information can be filled in.
– Robin
2 days ago
25
If this is about health care, then you need a field for "sex" not "gender". This will allow you to store it as male or female.
– Clay07g
2 days ago
6
"Or does this offend LGBT people by saying that they are not truly male or female" is such a weird phrasing; there are plenty of LGBT folks who are absolutely truly male or female, and there are plenty of LGBT folks who are not and would absolutely bristle at the implication that to not be considered such is somehow "lesser."
– fluffy
2 days ago